Photography Credit: Tom Suddard
Many cars have a clear adversary: Mustangs have clashed with Camaros for years. The Evo-versus-STI feud is still going strong. These pairings are more than just petty rivalries, though–they’re an exercise in measuring performance. After all, what’s a race without a well-matched foe nipping at your heels?
But what about a homebuilt roadster made from a wrecked Subaru? Is there a yardstick for the Factory Five 818?
We think there is, and it’s called the Porsche Boxster S. Like the 818, the Boxster has a mid-mounted engine with horizontally opposed cylinders. It’s a roadster. It has two seats. And most Boxsters are weekend toys, likely owned by the same kind of enthusiasts who would have the time and ability to build an 818.
So we set out to compare something built in our garage to a finely engineered German performance car. Did our home-built creation measure up, or did it have room for improvement?
The venue for this test would be The FIRM, a newly renovated motorsports facility just outside of Gainesville, Florida. And the driver wouldn’t be one of us–we wanted a true test pilot for this comparison. We commandeered Dan Shields, five-time SCCA Solo National champion, nationally certified driving instructor, and ASE-certified master technician. He’s also a nice guy.
If anyone could drive our 818 and keep it in one piece, it would be Dan. As a bonus, he also brought us a Porsche–his wife’s pristine 2002 Boxster S that’s a regular in Porsche Club of America autocross competition. Aside from a set of Bridgestone Potenza RE-11 tires, it’s still stock. Our 818 rolls on Yokohama Advan Neova AD08 R tires, making this a fair fight right down to the rubber.
On paper, there’s only one standout difference between the 818 and the Boxster: weight. The Boxster weighs 1000 pounds more than our homebuilt sports car.
Time for a friendly face-off. Despite similar layouts, the scales don’t lie: The 818 undercuts the Porsche Boxster by 1000 pounds.
Otherwise, there’s little difference between the two cars. Once you factor in driveline loss, they both make about the same amount of power. Both cars have a similar footprint, too.
The question is, will the Boxster’s inherent “Porscheness” make up for its heftiness on track? Or will the 818’s light weight and better suspension design shoot it into the lead?
Before we could answer the question, we needed test criteria. After an hour or so of getting acquainted with the 818, Dan mapped out a course. His final design combined a long straight with a series of S-bends, a slalom, a banked sweeper, high-speed transitions, and a few 90-degree, city-style corners. In short, it was the perfect test of a sports car’s abilities: handling, braking, acceleration, transitions and even driver confidence.
Photography Credit: Tom Suddard
Once he was comfortable driving each car, Dan completed four flying laps of his test course. The verdict? The 818 is faster than the Boxster.
A thousand pounds is hard to hide on a road course, even when the driver has spent years learning how to work with the extra weight. Dan has campaigned a huge variety of cars–from MG Midget to Ford Mustang–at the national level in both road racing and autocrossing.
Photography Credit: Tom Suddard
Dan’s laps were über-consistent in the Porsche, but varied a fair bit in the 818. We’ll chalk that up to his unfamiliarity with the Factory Five, though we can’t help but wonder if a Porsche is easier to drive than our turbocharged monster.
Track testing, though, is only one part of this comparison. That extra 1000 pounds had to go somewhere–Porsche spent it on creature comforts, metal bodywork and safety features.
Comparing the Boxster and the 818 as street cars isn’t even a contest–one has carpet with sound deadening, one has a metal floor with drain holes. One has a/c, one doesn’t have a roof. One has power windows, one has a hood that constantly waves at the driver like a drunk guy on a parade float.
The Porsche also has not one trunk, but two. Try to carry anything bigger than an insurance card in the 818, and you’ll be disappointed. If you push through that disappointment and try to put anything in the rear “trunk,” then your cargo will arrive nice and toasty. The Porsche also has crumple zones, air bags, stability control and decades of crash testing experience behind its design.
Good lap times and street manners don’t necessarily add up to a truly great car. It takes something more, something intangible. The 818 and the Boxster both tick the “je ne sais quoi” box, but in very different ways.
The 818 is awesome because of its origin: your own garage. The Porsche, in contrast, hails from a company with a rich racing pedigree and a reputation for producing great sports cars. One lets your neighbors know you’ve finally made it, while the other lets your neighbors know you’ve literally made it.
The Porsche does have the allure of easy maintenance, provided your checkbook is thick enough. Any dealer will gladly work on it, and you’ll never get your hands dirty if you don’t want to.
The 818, though, is the opposite. No dealer in their right mind would touch it, but its parts are simple and easy to find. Plus, the simple act of buying one means you’re required to learn how to work on it. It’s a safe assumption that anyone with a running 818 has gained the skills to keep it that way. Both cars are well supported by local and national clubs, too.
So what’s the verdict? The 818 is clearly a faster track car, while the Porsche is clearly a better street car.
Buy the one that fits your desires. If you want a track toy that will remind you of the fun you had playing with Legos as a kid, then buy the 818. If you want a timeless, turnkey sports car that will help you unwind on weekends, buy the Porsche. Either one is a great choice, because either one is a great car.
At this point, we’re comfortable calling our Factory Five 818 finished. We started with nothing more than a pile of parts, a wrecked Subaru and an instruction manual, and we finished with a car that can attract drooling bystanders, beat a Porsche on track, and take you to work every day. This 10th installment will be the last official story in this project car’s series, but that doesn’t mean it will disappear. We’ll still be writing about it online, so don’t be surprised if you see the occasional update in the pages of Grassroots Motorsports.
Now, what to do with it? As we proved by building a supercar in our garage, almost anything is possible.
Dan Shields has spent years honing his craft in the Boxster. What did he think when we dropped him into our homebuilt, turbocharged track car?
“This is an interesting car. As a track toy, it is really fun. Compared to a Porsche, parts are cheaper, it’s easier to work on, and it’s clearly faster on the track, mostly because it is half a ton lighter.
“I was concerned the 818 would be peaky and hard to drive as the turbo spooled up. Honestly, it was pretty benign. I had heard the chassis might be twitchy, but on track it was surprisingly neutral and confidence-inspiring. If anything, it’s limited by understeer, just like the Boxster–though not to the point that I’d try to change anything. The 818 is crisp, and it’s fun to drive. It really delivers a great driving experience. I like it.
“The Boxster S feels like a well-broken-in pair of shoes. I know what it will do, I’m comfortable in it, and I know it’s going to help me any way it can. I’m not at that point with the 818, and it needs some ergonomic improvements before I can get there. If it were my car, I’d shorten the shift lever and move the pedals slightly so it’s easier to heel/toe. The ability to adjust the seat would be nice, too.
“The Porsche will put in a day at the track and still let you relax in comfort on the drive home. Those two trunks will swallow a lot of gear for a road trip.
“The 818 is a modern take on the classic roadster. It isn’t a car that many people would want to drive every day–not even to and from the track–but it is great while on the track or during a nice drive in the country. Plus, if you take it to a show, you can smile and tell people, ‘Yeah, I built it myself.’”
Dan Shield has been autocrossing and road racing for decades. Despite never having driven an 818 before, after his initial laps he had high praises for the car. Some ergonomic improvements, he said, could make it even more potent. Photography Credit: David S. Wallens
1000 pounds and 2 seconds faster on a road course. I would have thought the difference would be more pronounced. What does everyone else think?
Agreed. That doesn't seem like a big enough difference. Same tire compound?
Same tire compound I think but Porsche's tires are wider by almost half an inch front and back.
Also, the Porsche has more HP, and more than a few years of sports car engineering prowess behind it.
Edit: doh! I only remembered the second half of the statement that seems plenty contradictory:
"Aside from a set of Bridgestone Potenza RE-11 tires, it’s still stock. Our 818 rolls on Yokohama Advan Neova AD08 R tires, making this a fair fight right down to the rubber."
In reply to Robbie :
Oops missed that.
That makes it pretty disappointing.
Goes to show weight isn't that important if the car can handle it.
I imagine that someone who isn't as dialed in with the Porsche as Shields might find the performance gap to be greater.
I agree, but someone with a lot of experience tracking any MR car has got to be closer than average to hopping into an 818 and doing well.
I think one thing that's not really mentioned here is that the 818 seems intended to be a thrill machine, and it's a little incongruous to have a mostly stock powertrain in it. Add a little 'easy turbo power' and the gap could become fairly huge, especially on a faster track. Not very easy (or cheap) to add power to the Boxster.
Track, 818. Street, Boxter. I say that having visited Factory Five two days ago.
Danny your car is pretty
If we're tossing out the "living with this car on regular roads" and really just comparing track capability, why not compare the 818 with a track-use Boxster S? From what I've read, a Boxster S stripped down to a "track spec but still street legal" (including a hardtop) gets down to about 2500lbs or less.
Also minor bone to pick that I didn't notice on the first read. For the FF you list the power as 225 (wheel) but list the porsche as 250 (flywheel). This is not apples to apples. 250 at the flywheel is more like 210 at the wheel for the Porsche. So anyone surprised about the "more powerful Porsche" being slower, should look again.... At very least you could have talked to your Porsche tuner buddies (I know you must have one) and found out what a typical "wheel" horsepower for the Boxster is.
Side note: remind me what engine/turbo is in your 818?
In any case, not defending the Porsche per se, but I'm an analyst so I like to see comparitive analysis conducted using the same criteria and rating. I suspect that a 2500# Boxster S with the same level of "track" modifications as your 818 would probably beat the 818 on the track, or at least come close to it. Just speculation there, of course.
Both will badly thrash my 924S on the track, haha (and my WRX will absolutely annihilate it...)
A quick internet search indicates that a typical stock early-2000s Boxster S puts down about 220hp and 195 tq to the wheels...
I've always been a fan of the FFR 818, watching its whole development, but that picture above with the boxster sure makes it look like a cheesy kit car.
D2W said:I've always been a fan of the FFR 818, watching its whole development, but that picture above with the boxster sure makes it look like a cheesy kit car.
Thank you for putting your finger on exactly how I felt!
The preponderance of graphics on the FF818 doesn't do it any visual favors IMO. The coupe version looks a lot more grown up.
2.32 second average faster lap is a lifetime in a race. The 818 would be lapping the Porsche in about 40 or so laps at that track based on those lap times.
Not even close.
Maybe the next one should be the 818 Coupe vs. Cayman R 
Is that a 2002 Subaru engine and suspension in the 818? No disrespect to Mr. Smith and the fantastic corral of cars his company builds but it doesn't seem like an apples to apples comparison. Perhaps an Exocet would be a better comp.
irish44j said:Maybe the next one should be the 818 Coupe vs. Cayman R
They make an 818R kit for $10,990 that laps Lime Rock in :56 and 2:00 flat at the Glen. So, genuinely for reels fast. If you are going to build a kit car for the track I can't imagine why you wouldn't start with the better spec kit even if you had to mix and match a little to get a license plate. If you are able to swing $20k for a kit car build... you can swing 25k to make it haul ass. Really you just need two junk cars to be donors... one crappy WRX, and then a 2004-2007 Subaru STI to donate the motor and a few other racy bits.
https://www.factoryfive.com/818/818r/
This is a pretty interesting article. I'd be curious to hear from the GRM guys who did the test: did you feel like the 818 was appropriately faster than the Porsche given being 1000 lbs lighter?
I feel like the 2-2.5 sec/lap faster times are right on that edge of "that's an eternity in lap times on a track" and "huh, I thought it'd be faster. I mean, it's 1000 lbs."
Did you feel like something about the 'home builted-ness' was holding it back?
My answer to the question is "It SHOULD be!"
Building a car without having to comply with liability law, crash standards, provide comfort and luxuries, emissions compliance etc etc makes it REALLY easy to build an extremely quick and well-mannered car.
In reply to dculberson :
Two+ seconds a lap is a LOT of time. At my local tracks, Barber Motorsports Park and Road Atlanta, the driver of the Boxster won't be able to see the FF after 3-4 laps. Put a driver in the FF with as much experience as this driver has in a Boxster/Cayman and watch the gap grow.
BA5 said:This is a pretty interesting article. I'd be curious to hear from the GRM guys who did the test: did you feel like the 818 was appropriately faster than the Porsche given being 1000 lbs lighter?
I feel like the 2-2.5 sec/lap faster times are right on that edge of "that's an eternity in lap times on a track" and "huh, I thought it'd be faster. I mean, it's 1000 lbs."
Did you feel like something about the 'home builted-ness' was holding it back?
You hit the nail on the head. While our 818 was fun, honestly we never really put the time in to fix some of its inherent evilness. It was a handful.
The Boxster is an amazing, perfectly sorted driving machine. The sort of thing that happens when a bunch of Porsche engineers spend years tuning a chassis.
The 818 is, well, a kit car. Infinite adjustability and no production car constraints means you can do a lot to improve the driving experience. But it also means you have to do a lot to improve the driving experience, and we focused that project more on the building than the sorting.
To get an idea of what I'm talking about, check out my article on prepping the 350Z's chassis. This amount of skill/time/effort would have paid dividends with the 818.
Sounds like it is as much about development as anything else. As tommy said- the booster is the result of really good engineers from a really good company making a really good chassis really shine. None of us- maybe except Keith, or fellas like him who have the skills do really make an imperfect car as near to perfect as possible.
'Isn't that the fable of the 911? A triumph of development over original engineering? Now make that original engineering nearly perfect....
It actually takes a team of people to build something like the Boxster. No one person could do it. A lot of things in life require massive amounts of teamwork to achieve. It's actually pretty cool when you think about it. It's also why all project cars are a compromise in ways. A lot of people have amazing skills far beyond mine and make really cool stuff, but it still takes an entire team to make a Boxster. Even the FM project cars are the same. FM had a lot of videos on how they fabbed up the parts for the ND V8 conversion. It took more than one person to pull that off too. There was also a lot of integration from work done by teams of people at GM too. And then there was the team at Mazda that provided the canvass for that automotive art.
Tom Suddard said:BA5 said:This is a pretty interesting article. I'd be curious to hear from the GRM guys who did the test: did you feel like the 818 was appropriately faster than the Porsche given being 1000 lbs lighter?
I feel like the 2-2.5 sec/lap faster times are right on that edge of "that's an eternity in lap times on a track" and "huh, I thought it'd be faster. I mean, it's 1000 lbs."
Did you feel like something about the 'home builted-ness' was holding it back?
You hit the nail on the head. While our 818 was fun, honestly we never really put the time in to fix some of its inherent evilness. It was a handful.
The Boxster is an amazing, perfectly sorted driving machine. The sort of thing that happens when a bunch of Porsche engineers spend years tuning a chassis.
The 818 is, well, a kit car. Infinite adjustability and no production car constraints means you can do a lot to improve the driving experience. But it also means you have to do a lot to improve the driving experience, and we focused that project more on the building than the sorting.
To get an idea of what I'm talking about, check out my article on prepping the 350Z's chassis. This amount of skill/time/effort would have paid dividends with the 818.
That takes me back to a kit car comparo you did a bunch of years ago. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that Keith's Locost beat an Ariel Atom and another car that should be faster on paper. The difference was that Keith's car was much more dialed in. It was the beneficiary of development that the other two cars weren't.
All the experienced guys here understand the importance of prep and tuning. I'd bet that a good deal more time could have been extracted from the 818 under the proper care.
A follow-up with a prepped 818 coupe and perhaps a Cayman S would be very interesting.
Reply to BA5 and DaleCarter:
If you look at laps 2-5, my Boxster S laps were all about the same, but in the 818 I was getting a lot quicker with each additional lap. Gaining familiarity, exploring the limits. I think the comparison would be more dramatic after four or five more laps.
"All the experienced guys here understand the importance of prep and tuning. I'd bet that a good deal more time could have been extracted from the 818 under the proper care."
Feels like another win for mundane details, fanatical preparation, and checklists. Competitions (business, sports, dating, etc.) are sometimes won and lost on incredibly small margins and the little stuff compounds.
I would think building a car for a few fast laps on the track is relatively cheap & easy. Making it run all day is more difficult - cooling issues can be difficult to solve depending on the constraints imposed by the body shape. Building a car for daily use (specifically, one a normal person would voluntarily want to drive) is much, much more difficult.
The nice thing about a Porsche is it can run all day at the track and be loads of fun & reasonably fast, and then one can take a 1600 mile road trip three days later and it's the car you actually want to drive. And depending on the model (G 911 perhaps) and age of the kids, it can make a dinner outing and a small trip to Costco with a family of four in it.
I have a kit car, probably on par with a stock GT4 Cayman track-wise. Similar power to weight, similar grip. It's a blast on track, and it is driven to & from the track, though it isn't especially pleasant on good days and quite miserable on bad ones (not Super7 miserable, but still miserable). Also it's difficult for ingress & egress, especially for us over 50 folks. It took many dollars and hours to get it so it can run 30+ minute sessions in reasonable weather without overheating. And, while the base 'kit' (aka roller sans drivetrain) was cheaper than a GT4, air cooled engines have gotten shockingly expensive. By the time it was self propelled and I was happy with it a GT4 would have been considerably less money. Had I known what I was getting into ahead of time, I'd have run the other way. Still, sorting it has been (often type 2) fun, and it scratches an itch a GT4 would not.
There is a fellow on the Pelicanparts forum (plavan) who tried to properly sort & track an 818, and he came to the conclusion that it was more cost effective to buy a used Cayman.
burgermeister said:I would think building a car for a few fast laps on the track is relatively cheap & easy. Making it run all day is more difficult - cooling issues can be difficult to solve depending on the constraints imposed by the body shape. Building a car for daily use (specifically, one a normal person would voluntarily want to drive) is much, much more difficult.
The nice thing about a Porsche is it can run all day at the track and be loads of fun & reasonably fast, and then one can take a 1600 mile road trip three days later and it's the car you actually want to drive. And depending on the model (G 911 perhaps) and age of the kids, it can make a dinner outing and a small trip to Costco with a family of four in it.
I have a kit car, probably on par with a stock GT4 Cayman track-wise. Similar power to weight, similar grip. It's a blast on track, and it is driven to & from the track, though it isn't especially pleasant on good days and quite miserable on bad ones (not Super7 miserable, but still miserable). Also it's difficult for ingress & egress, especially for us over 50 folks. It took many dollars and hours to get it so it can run 30+ minute sessions in reasonable weather without overheating. And, while the base 'kit' (aka roller sans drivetrain) was cheaper than a GT4, air cooled engines have gotten shockingly expensive. By the time it was self propelled and I was happy with it a GT4 would have been considerably less money. Had I known what I was getting into ahead of time, I'd have run the other way. Still, sorting it has been (often type 2) fun, and it scratches an itch a GT4 would not.
There is a fellow on the Pelicanparts forum (plavan) who tried to properly sort & track an 818, and he came to the conclusion that it was more cost effective to buy a used Cayman.
That's valuable insight
Zooming out a bit - or a lot:
Things have changed in the 40 years I've been in the shallow end of performance cars. Back in the late 1980's, you could buy a used Datsun cheap, add performance parts right out of their catalog, and end up with a still-affordable car that could beat much more expensive cars on-track. Fast forward to now (or even 15 years ago), and when you show up at the same track with your same modified Datsun, you're facing an entirely different competition. No longer are the majority of the cars old beat up models, modified by the owners themselves. Now, a young man goes to the dealer and buys an STi, Miata, Honda Civic R, Corvette, or any number of Porsches, and they're faster than your "fast" car ever was. The technology has changed and times have moved on. Straight out of the box, many OEM sports cars are far more dialed in than 20 years ago. It's become more and more difficult for a kit car maker to be guaranteed faster just by essentially removing every luxury/safety feature out of a chassis to reduce weight, putting a drivetrain in a tube frame chassis, and counting on the resulting power to weight to be an automatic win on the track. Suspension design is a really involved and complex task to get really right, and as was said, it's rare for a single individual to come up with something that beats Porsche's 50-year suspension development and refinement.
You'll need to log in to post. Log in
