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Floating Doc (Forum Supporter)
Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
1/8/22 11:12 p.m.

There's many interesting ideas being discussed here. As has been pointed out, and I think should be emphasized, this is a primarily a media company, less so an event company.

For the number of people that work there, turning out two monthly periodicals and additional video content is already a full time job. 

Expanding the Challenge to a much larger event might work to make it viable financially, but it's a lot bigger investment in time and money with more risk.  

Catch22 New Reader
1/12/22 4:09 a.m.

I read it...I read it all!

It's 4:00 in the morning...I'm going to bed!

Appleseed MegaDork
1/17/22 9:11 p.m.

This thread is berkeleying terrifying.

Stampie GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
1/17/22 9:39 p.m.

In reply to Appleseed :

You need a hug?  I'm all about giving free hugs.  Just a note, I looked today and the green is still there.

maschinenbau GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
1/18/22 10:07 a.m.

Yep. Not knowing the Challenge rules 9 months before the Challenge feels pretty bad. 

Indy - Guy
Indy - Guy PowerDork
1/18/22 10:23 a.m.

Has the UTCC become the premier event on GRM's calendar?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ PowerDork
1/18/22 10:28 a.m.
Indy - Guy said:

Has the UTCC become the premier event on GRM's calendar?

$2k UTCC subclass sounds pretty cool.

KyAllroad MegaDork
1/18/22 10:31 a.m.

In reply to Indy - Guy :

If it has they can stop calling it Grassroots.   

Like the FB group that calls themselves "Average Middle class garage goals" and is chock full of Corvettes, Porsches, Ferraris, and more in 4-8 bay garage mahals.  

Captdownshift (Forum Supporter)
Captdownshift (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
1/19/22 6:15 a.m.

In reply to maschinenbau :

Only tires have been mentioned by anyone who matters. Everything else, especially things said by myself, are merely thought exercises and don't represent the views or opinions of anyone with any sort of authority. 


Anyone who's purchased R comps or even 200tw rubber for an event that occurs in October has already done themse a disservice, so there's absolutely nothing to be terrified about. 

SV reX
SV reX MegaDork
1/19/22 2:11 p.m.

In reply to Captdownshift (Forum Supporter) :

I think you missed on page 2 where he said how badly this would affect his build, and how much it would cost. 

He's using Lotus wheels. 200tw isn't available. 

Byrneon27 Reader
1/19/22 5:48 p.m.

 ^ I lose 4" of tread width, my front bodywork goes in the dumpster (60-75hrs) and I have to tune out probably 100hp to make the thing drivable.


It's not just the tires

Greg Smith (Forum Supporter)
Greg Smith (Forum Supporter) Dork
1/20/22 11:09 a.m.

Simple answer (for me) has been make the tires 'in budget' again. But what do I know?

bigben Reader
1/21/22 1:20 a.m.

Looks like I have some reading to do to catch up on the conversation, but I've read enough to know that the tire change is going to cost me a lot more money to be competitive. I run old used race slicks with the hope that they're not too far behind a fresh set of 200TW. 

I agree that allowing $1200-$1400 to be spent on tires on a car competing as a $2000 build doesn't make much sense, but allowing $700 - $1000 doesn't make sense either.

Forgive me if someone has already suggested this but why not change the rule to put a cap on the cost of that first set of free tires like the cap we have on the recoup. "One set of 4 tires is free to the budget up to a max purchase price or peer accepted FMV of $xx."

Indy - Guy
Indy - Guy PowerDork
1/27/22 8:55 a.m.

Tom,  we're a few weeks out from the Christmas season now.  When do you guys anticipate finalizing the rule set / any potential changes ?

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter)
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
1/27/22 4:42 p.m.

regardless of the price delta between 200+ TW and <200 TW, i think it doesn't make sense to limit grip in autocross but not limit grip in drags, considering the event is put on by a magazine that doesn't write about drag racing (other than as part of the Challenge) and has never (in my memory) built a magazine project car for drag racing.

eastsideTim PowerDork
1/27/22 5:36 p.m.

I think earlier in the thread Tom had mentioned something about not finalizing until after Daytona, so I am assuming no update til next week at the earliest.

SV reX
SV reX MegaDork
1/27/22 5:58 p.m.

In reply to AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) :

That's a great point. Definitely skews the event toward the drags

Indy - Guy
Indy - Guy PowerDork
1/27/22 7:11 p.m.

In reply to eastsideTim :

Thanks.  I must've missed that.

rdcyclist Reader
1/28/22 2:46 p.m.

Started yesterday, 27Jan and finished this morning. I've never been but I have every single GRM issue with the Challenge event article from about 2004. I've got a car and most of the parts and planned the build in my head. I think I could field a competitive car with slicks or street tires. Slicks would be quite a bit cheaper for me since I have a source for used tires but doesn't matter to me much either way other than the about 800 clams difference in cost.

My problem is being in central California, I've got a 3000 mile tow to Gainsville and much of the trip is not what one would call scenic. I know this to be a fact because I've ridden motorcycle from here to there and back several times. This is the main reason I've not built the car and showed up. It's going to be a solid three to four day tow each way with all of the attendant travel costs. Someone mentioned that for them to participate from where they are it's going to run about eight large soup to nuts. I'm probably another grand over that.

If GRM wants to increase participation, putting the venue in a more central location would make a huge difference. Heartland Park in Topeka, KS comes to mind. I can get there in two plus days of driving and so can most of the rest of the country.

The other point and I don't think anybody mentioned this: Tom sez we need to get more participation and then a coupla pages later states the limit on concours entries tops out at 50 due to logistics and time. So what GRM needs to happen is more participation from the Outlaw and Exhibition contingent. If the tire rule somehow magically produces another 40 entries for the $2000 Challenge, they're going to have a crabgrass problem. I know if I finally get off my ass, build the car and tow it across the country, I'm going for the gusto.

Anyway, I'm waiting for the rules to be finalized and then I'll come up with another reason I can't build the car and spend two weeks driving to and from an event I'm likely to win another plaque for the garage wall...

eastsideTim PowerDork
1/28/22 2:57 p.m.

In reply to rdcyclist :

Even if you don't do a build, I'd strongly recommend hopping a cheap flight out and spectating, or joining a team that is based closer..  The challenge is a whole lot more fun than this thread.

QuasiMofo (John Brown)
QuasiMofo (John Brown) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
1/28/22 4:47 p.m.

In reply to rdcyclist :

If there were ever a venue change Topeka is where I'd like to see it as well.

Can we get back to my idea of everyone using tires named Achilles, Lionhart or Landspider for the entire event?

bigben Reader
1/30/22 10:05 p.m.
QuasiMofo (John Brown) said:

In reply to rdcyclist :


Can we get back to my idea of everyone using tires named Achilles, Lionhart or Landspider for the entire event?

Then we'd all need to learn how drift events are scored and recruit some ice skating judges to oversee the event. 

QuasiMofo (John Brown)
QuasiMofo (John Brown) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
1/31/22 4:17 p.m.

In reply to bigben :

As long as they wear the sequins I'm in. 

Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard GRM+ Memberand Director of Marketing & Digital Assets
1/31/22 4:27 p.m.

Quick update here:

This is my next project now that Daytona is over. I have exciting news, but am still getting pen on paper. I believe we've found a way to fund the event, and a way to let everybody compete on their used Hoosiers alongside those running 200tw tires. 

Just to clarify, this isn't any official progress or update. But I think this thread will end happily after nearly 20 pages. laugh

QuasiMofo (John Brown)
QuasiMofo (John Brown) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
1/31/22 4:27 p.m.

So sequins?

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