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MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt UltimaDork
12/17/21 1:12 p.m.

It's starting to look like it's really coming together now.

slantsix
slantsix Reader
12/17/21 2:38 p.m.

Woo Hoo...

I like how you have a slant 6 picture book on the RF core support for guidance and motorvationsmileysmileysmileyyes

 

Greg

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt UltimaDork
12/17/21 3:20 p.m.

Yes, Doug's book has been extremely useful here.

slantsix
slantsix Reader
12/17/21 4:06 p.m.

I thought it might had been Doc's book.. but I didn't want to assume.

 

Greg

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt UltimaDork
12/30/21 1:21 p.m.

And there's a factory service manual on the other fender. smiley

Got the AN hose cutter from Summit and trimmed the frayed kickdown cable sheath.

Next, I covered it with heat shrink tube to avoid a repeat of the fraying.

And I figured as long as I was ordering stuff from Summit, I ought to replace the stock alternator bracket with one that's easier to adjust.

Clearances are pretty close between the belt and the crank position sensor, not to mention the lower radiator hose. (It's not a stock replacement radiator.)

You'll notice I'd armored the hose with a section cut out of a charge pipe. I think I'm going to find a way to add an idler pulley to get the belt out of the way better. I have some ideas about how I might do that...

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt UltimaDork
1/7/22 2:12 p.m.

Got the kickdown and throttle cables back together:

The heat shrink on the other end was still small enough to fit in.

The U-bend at the throttle end needed a bit of lube.

The only remaining thing that looks like a major challenge is going to be rerouting the fan belt.

 

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt UltimaDork
2/4/22 1:39 p.m.

So - I need to figure out how I'm going to handle the cooling system in front. I went to put in the radiator fans, and I found I had even less clearance than before.

Turns out I got one of the motor mounts backwards.

That may be why the transmission mount was such a pain, too. So I got that turned around with a bit of help from Randy, who was operating a jury rigged jack setup while I spun the mount around, making sure my fingers weren't in a pinch point. Glad to have that over.

Now I have about a half inch of clearance between the fan and the water pump bolts.

The previous setup had the intercooler in front, then the transmission cooler, then the radiator, and then two small fans. The intercooler has a bracket holding it up, but the transmission cooler and fans were held on with the cooling system version of zip ties. Never got around to putting the grille on, but I'd need to trim part of the grille's support structure to make everything fit. Come to think of it, I should probably check if I have any Ospho left over...

I could go back to that, as it would work, but there are a few things I don't like.

  1. The zip ties all the stress from the weight and vibration of the fans and cooler on the radiator fins. I'd like to anchor them to the radiator support or other solid point instead.
  2. I have about a half inch of clearance between the water pump pulley bolts and the top fan.

So, options I can see using.

  1. Go back to how I originally had it, but possibly fabricate some sort of mounts for the fans.
  2. Option 1 but replace the upper fan (which has the closest clearance) with a slimmer design.
  3. Set the radiator back slightly and put the fans in between the intercooler and radiator. Then put the transmission cooler behind the radiator or remote mount it.
  4. Switch to a thinner radiator. (The current one is a circle track radiator that is a bit thicker than stock.)
  5. Find a way to move the engine about an inch and a half rearward.

I'd rather avoid buying a new radiator, and setting the engine back looks plausible but difficult. Is there anything I'm overlooking? Have I been selling the zip tie method for installing the fans short?

Agent98
Agent98 Reader
2/4/22 11:38 p.m.

That water pump sure looks like it has a long snout. Are there shorter ones out there? Then you can go back to a stock location fan, and use a shroud....

Dusterbd13-michael
Dusterbd13-michael MegaDork
2/5/22 6:46 a.m.

I had so little clearance in the duster i had to cut a clearance slot in the shroud of the electric fans for install. The water pump shaft JUUUST touches. But i still have 1/2 and inch or so to the radiator itself. 

Id go #1, and make brackets for everything. And probably brackets that mount the condenser and intercooler together and to tbe radiator,  which bolts to the core support. Like the neons or other late models. 

Norma66-Brent
Norma66-Brent HalfDork
2/5/22 10:43 a.m.

The heat shrink trick is money

I need to figure out how I'm going to handle the cooling system in front. I went to put in the radiator fans, and I found I had even less clearance than before.

I agree those awful fan-mount-ziptie thingies are not worth running.  Maybe on an old school brass radiator but on an aluminum I've always worried about how soft the metal is, plus the fatigue that extra weight causes.  Maybe they work fine but I'm not about to find out.

Have you considered sourcing an OEM fan and shroud? For a while I was considering this one to fit a Ford Contour (plus other models)  and it's hard to tell from your photos but this might allow you to get two fans in and still miss your water pump snout. 


Cooling Fan Assembly Compatible with Ford Contour Mercury Cougar Mystique 95-00

It might just fit as-is, or could be a good starting point if you take out the fans and fab your own shroud.  I found this measured drawing online and which may help, and I've seen good dual fan setups from other OEMs you could search around for too.  Worth a shot!

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt UltimaDork
2/7/22 8:09 a.m.

Thanks for all the suggestions! To answer the questions raised:

The car has never had A/C, so at least I don't have to worry about a condenser.

I'm not aware of a different water pump fitment for the slant six. There were a couple minor redesigns in material and impeller shape, but I'm not aware of one with a shorter pulley length. It may be possible to modify the driveshaft and pulley, but could be a bit sketchy. I have a worn-out pump I can use to check if there's a way. It is also possible there is some weird industrial or marine pump that used a different design.

I have considered an OEM fan and shroud assembly, but most of them are too thick. I don't have 3.3 inches of clearance. Any idea if there are any super-thin ones out there?

slantsix
slantsix HalfDork
2/7/22 9:21 a.m.

I do not believe there is a short snout Slant 6 water pump unless it's something that you cobble together on your own.

 

Greg

1SlowVW
1SlowVW HalfDork
2/7/22 8:13 p.m.

In reply to MadScientistMatt :

I'm a fan of a dollar store cookie sheet and two small electric slim fans placed wherever you can fit them. 
 

Love the build keep at it. 

I have considered an OEM fan and shroud assembly, but most of them are too thick. I don't have 3.3 inches of clearance. Any idea if there are any super-thin ones out there?

I forgot how long those sixes are. How much clearance you think you have? 

I used an OEM fan on my build (a single fan unit from a Mark VIII) and I was able to shave about 3/4" out of the shroud depth and the fan still has enough clearance from the radiator. Even then I had to kick the lower rad mount forward a bit, which tilted the rad for a tiny bit more clearance.

So it definitely took some work, but the fan was a good starting point and it's hard to beat the value. Fords of that era seemed get away with making the grilles smaller by beefing up their radiator fans, so it ticks the cheap but powerful box big time.

Of course the downside is you have to buy one and cut it up a bit to find out.  Keep up the good work, this thread been a favorite for some time.  \m/

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt UltimaDork
2/8/22 1:25 p.m.

Today I went about checking answers to some questions raised here and elsewhere.

1. How much clearance do I have between the water pump pulley and the radiator?

Turns out it's about 1 3/4".

2. Can I shorten the water pump?

Some people on a slant six group noted that the water pump pulley flange is simply pressed onto the shaft and can be pressed a little more. So here's a trial run with a leaking pumpt that I pulled off the car.

Yeah. I'm about to squash a water pump in a hydraulic press. Nothing sketchy here. 

Here's the pulley flange before pressing.

And after.

I did make one mistake: The impeller didn't sit flush with the end of the shaft, and ended up pressed inward too.

Now it scrapes against the inside of the housing. So if I do this mod to the pump I'm actually using, I may need to find a spacer to put on top the shaft. Or just put some valve lapping compounds on the impeller vanes and sand in a bit more clearance.

So it looks like shortening the water pump is a workable idea, if I can find a pulley that matches...

I also like 1SlowVW's suggestion of a cookie sheet fan shroud. That would be the third mod made from bakeware on the car, after the fuel tank sump and the oil pan baffle.

 

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt UltimaDork
2/10/22 3:18 p.m.

Found what should be a suitable cookie sheet; I think I can modify the fans I have to make everything fit. The lower fan will need to hang off the end of the sheet as it doesn't fully cover the radiator.

Going to start cutting tomorrow...

petey
petey Reader
2/10/22 4:15 p.m.

Loving the project man

Doing something similar myself

slantsix
slantsix HalfDork
2/10/22 4:24 p.m.
petey said:

Loving the project man

Doing something similar myself

Nice, but Petey maybe is running this in a B  or C body Mopar?

I can tell it's not an A body by the inner fender wells.

 

Greg

petey
petey Reader
2/10/22 5:32 p.m.

In reply to slantsix :

Its in a 66 Fury 

slantsix
slantsix HalfDork
2/10/22 6:05 p.m.

In reply to petey :

Awesome. Thats a buncha car to get the turbo slant motorvated.!

petey
petey Reader
2/10/22 7:34 p.m.

Once the fueling gets sorted it should do alright

Vac secondary carbs dont really like blow through boost weve discovered

Starts runs drives just fine but once the boost hits it goes nope 

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
2/10/22 7:43 p.m.

That wasn't a mistake, you were just tightening up the clearance to increase the efficiency of the impeller.

Yeah, that's it!

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
2/10/22 7:47 p.m.
petey said:

Once the fueling gets sorted it should do alright

Vac secondary carbs dont really like blow through boost weve discovered

Starts runs drives just fine but once the boost hits it goes nope 

Hugh MacInnes' book had something about vacuum secondary carbs in it.  The idea involved redoing the plumbing and the springing so that PRESSURE opened the secondaries, instead of venturi vacuum.

Or you could just have a boxed carb instead of a hat, then it will operate "normally".

The idea of secondaries that open only after the turbo begins making boost seems to amplify the turbo lag feeling, but hey, if you're going to go old school, why not take it as far as you can?

petey
petey Reader
2/10/22 8:15 p.m.

Tried rerouting boost through the vacsecs and didnt work.next step is a 500 cfm 2 barrel holley and failing that port sefi off a 3.8 mustang. Simple system (94-98) and i have experience with em so....

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