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chandler
chandler MegaDork
6/12/24 7:02 p.m.

My fog light had a pin hole so it filled with water and over time rotted out. The truck was in the dealership so I told them to swap it out; I had already bought the housing ($400 ouch!) but required removal of the bumper to change so I hadn't gotten around to it. Got it back and was super excited when the receipt showed complimentary installation until I found that they had installed a fog light BULB instead of the new housing; into the rotted out housing that is full of water. The bulb was burned out by the time I got home which is when I noticed what the did. Usually, not bad; sometimes not good at all.

 

This is a 2022 F150

Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard GRM+ Memberand Publisher
6/13/24 9:25 a.m.

It's been a few days, so I emailed Ben earlier this morning to see if they'd looked at the truck yet. 

A few minutes after the dealership opened, I received this reply:

 Yeah, we did verify high voltage battery cell #2 has failed. We sent Ford the data that was needed and was approved for cell replacement. They have sent parts out. I'm just waiting for parts to come in now. The ETA on parts was 7-10 days. So, I should see them next week. Once received well get your truck worked back in and fixed.  

Nothing surprising there, and I'll keep you all posted on how the repair goes. 

Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard GRM+ Memberand Publisher
6/13/24 9:46 a.m.

In the meantime, I've been driving a nearly identical truck to mine but with a normal gas engine under the hood. It's the same cab, same trim, four-wheel-drive, with the only real difference being a slightly longer bed (6.5')

Is the grass really greener on the other side?

Well... no. This isn't a bad truck. In fact, it absolutely blows away the Tundra I had last week on every single level. But after running half a tank of gas through it I definitely miss my EV.

First, the ride: My truck has coil springs and IRS. This has a solid axle with leaf springs. The difference is definitely, definitely noticeable.

Second, the powertrain: My truck quietly cruises around at warp speed with zero drama. This thing is constantly bumping, shifting, screaming, etc. etc. It's not a bad powertrain by any means, but driving gas vs. EV back to back in the exact same vehicle is a stunning contrast. It's also not AWD, which means plenty of one-wheel-peels and traction control activation when driving in the rain with an empty bed. 

Third, equipment: As far as I can tell, this is an XLT with no options. Mine is an XLT with lots and lots of options, on top of the normal upgrades the Lightning gets. I'm guess I'm getting old, because I miss my center console, I miss my running boards, I miss my cameras, I miss my giant screens, I miss my radar cruise, I miss my fancy tailgate, etc. These are all the definition of first-world problems, but it's nice to know that I do, indeed miss the extra stuff I paid for when it's gone. 

Fourth, the frunk: I really, really, really, really miss the Lightning's trunk. Without it, I'm forced to leave all my crap in the back seat.

And finally, the big one... fuel mileage. I'm averaging 18.1 mpg with almost exclusively city driving. That's not bad at all--in fact it beats a lot of smaller trucks--and based on the indicated range I'd use something like a tank of fuel per week with normal driving before any trips to Orlando, the FIRM, etc.  which add another 1-200 miles per week depending on my schedule.

FuelEconomy.gov says the cost to fill this tank is $82-$129 depending on the size (I don't know which tank this has). Annoyingly, it does not seem to refuel itself when parked in my driveway overnight. 

For comparison's sake, here's my charging history from the Lightning the past few months. This isn't perfect data, as sometimes my wife uses my charger, sometimes I charge press cars, and sometimes I top off at public chargers, but it's a decent illustration of how much my truck costs to drive around vs. the gas version. You can see the offical side-by-side metrics here: https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=46169&id=45317

 

dculberson
dculberson MegaDork
6/13/24 9:59 a.m.
Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to Tom Suddard :

I know the feeling... I need to make an appointment with one of the local Dodge dealers to get new key fobs for my minivan.  I'm not terribly bothered by the cost, but I am absolutely dreading the experience. I haven't been to a dealer to service one of my cars in over 20 years. And that was such a crap experience I never went back to that dealer.  Who knows how much money I would have spent there had they not been such thieving morons. 

Too bad you're not closer; I have a key programming machine and can easily add fobs to a Caravan.

Purple Frog
Purple Frog GRM+ Memberand Dork
6/13/24 10:14 a.m.

I'm an EV advocate.  But, I have to say if I didn't have my work truck loaded with thousands of dollars of tools for multiple days after only 27,000 miles....   Not the best recommendation.

For a daily driver street car, it probably wouldn't bother me much.    I guess I've gotten use to vehicles going over 100K with any maintenance that doesn't take more than 2 hours...

Interesting that you found the F150 nicer than the Tundra.  Maybe why they sell so many.   The Tundra turbo V6 is now a major concern, also.

Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard GRM+ Memberand Publisher
6/13/24 10:32 a.m.

Yeah, Ford clearly sees the issue (they instantly handed me a truck to drive to work that day), but it's trickier if you can't move tools from one truck to another. And yes, the whole exercise is a bit annoying. Honestly, though, I didn't expect this ownership experience to be perfect... welcome to version 1.0 of anything. Ford has work to do, and they seem to know that, as the average car-buyer won't say "well of course it's broken for a few weeks, it's new and exciting!"

When our new Transit company van was broken after a few months, for example, we were livid--how could a brand new van need major repairs so soon!? WTF!?! GIVE US OUR VAN BACK! 

For what it's worth, as posted above I've been ignoring the repair campaign for months that would have almost certainly diagnosed and replaced this module proactively. I saw no benefit to visiting the dealer before being forced to.

tuna55
tuna55 MegaDork
6/13/24 10:48 a.m.

I would also be pretty annoyed at this failure mode, for what it's worth.

tuna55
tuna55 MegaDork
6/18/24 9:37 a.m.

They still have the truck? Any news?

Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard GRM+ Memberand Publisher
6/18/24 9:47 a.m.

No news yet. 

Toyman!
Toyman! GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
6/18/24 9:55 a.m.

I'm curious about the cell failure. Was it an individual cell that failed in a pack or was it a pack-mounted control that failed? 

Cells are supposed to have a failure rate of somewhere around 1 in 10 million. I'm curious if some other component caused the pack to fail. 

I would also like to know what the repair would have cost without a warranty. 

 

SV reX
SV reX MegaDork
6/18/24 9:59 a.m.

In reply to Tom Suddard :

You ready to sell at a GRM discount yet? 😂

Toyman!
Toyman! GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
6/18/24 10:02 a.m.

Looks like the modules are about $4400 each for the long range and there are 9 of them. 

 

Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard GRM+ Memberand Publisher
6/18/24 10:09 a.m.

I'm not sure exactly what the failure mode is yet--but as I posted earlier, Ford did issue a CSP months ago for a software update to the battery management system, which would then diagnose and flag bad cells for replacement. I'm going to take a wild guess and say that it's either a manufacturing defect in the cell, or a bad software strategy that mistreated the pack in some way/shape/form.

Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard GRM+ Memberand Publisher
6/18/24 10:19 a.m.
Toyman! said:

Looks like the modules are about $4400 each for the long range and there are 9 of them. 

Interesting. As a data point, a 5.0 Coyote truck engine's MSRP is $14,917.33 plus an $1800 core charge. Curious to see what batteries cost in another few years once F-150 Lightnings exist outside of warranty. Will it be like Priuses, with tons of cheap used/rebuilt options? Or will they stay expensive?

Toyman!
Toyman! GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
6/18/24 2:16 p.m.

This is interesting. Also interesting that they are changing the same module you are having issues with. 

 

Doubleoh9
Doubleoh9 New Reader
6/18/24 2:26 p.m.

In reply to Tom Suddard :

I come up with $8814.67 msrp for a Coyote long block (but that's just the long block no ancillary parts) and $5634.12 each for a battery array. I'm a parts guy at a fairly high volume Ford/Lincoln dealer and I think we've seen maybe 3-4 Lightning arrays fail and maybe a few more Mach-e.

One thing is that dealers don't stock the battery array like they might an engine (we keep a few 1.5 short blocks and 2.0 long blocks in stock because we do so many) they operate on an exchange program where Ford sends they dealer one and they send back the core, so that always adds time to a repair. 

 

Just for E36 M3s and giggles on the comparison I checked MSRP on a 2023 GT500 5.2 (sans supercharger, that adds $6510.00) and it's $20,886.67 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
6/18/24 6:22 p.m.

I have a friend who was a packaging engineer on the Lightning. I'll see if he has any insight into whether those failures are due to the cell being abused by software (sounds likely) or if Ford has a QC problem with their batteries.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
6/18/24 6:25 p.m.
Tom Suddard said:

I'm not sure exactly what the failure mode is yet--but as I posted earlier, Ford did issue a CSP months ago for a software update to the battery management system, which would then diagnose and flag bad cells for replacement. I'm going to take a wild guess and say that it's either a manufacturing defect in the cell, or a bad software strategy that mistreated the pack in some way/shape/form.

Sure would be convenient if Ford got OTA updates working so you wouldn't have to make a special trip to have that update applied. Might have saved you some trouble.

Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard GRM+ Memberand Publisher
6/22/24 11:29 a.m.
Keith Tanner said:
Tom Suddard said:

I'm not sure exactly what the failure mode is yet--but as I posted earlier, Ford did issue a CSP months ago for a software update to the battery management system, which would then diagnose and flag bad cells for replacement. I'm going to take a wild guess and say that it's either a manufacturing defect in the cell, or a bad software strategy that mistreated the pack in some way/shape/form.

Sure would be convenient if Ford got OTA updates working so you wouldn't have to make a special trip to have that update applied. Might have saved you some trouble.

OTA updates are working, and I've gotten tons of them for various stuff and new features. This CSP was going to be delivered OTA eventually, but I don't think my truck received it over the air yet. I was hoping it would arrive over the air so I didn't have to visit the dealer. 
 

EDIT: I checked the update history, and I did indeed receive the update a few months ago. Interesting.

Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard GRM+ Memberand Publisher
6/22/24 11:38 a.m.

The description makes me think this wasn't a fix for a problem, rather something closer to making it so the truck could drive to the dealership when a cell failed vs. being towed. 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
6/22/24 11:47 a.m.

Agreed. 

It seems that "Customer Satisfaction Program" is Fordspeak for "internal recall" :)

Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard GRM+ Memberand Publisher
6/22/24 11:56 a.m.

Oh totally. 

Spearfishin
Spearfishin Reader
6/22/24 2:52 p.m.
Tom Suddard said:
OHSCrifle said:

How many times has the hotel charger been occupied when you get there?
 

It's happened once or twice on roadtrips, but not usually. Most hotels with charging seem to have 2-4 chargers, while I've found one with a dozen of them. When they've all been full, I just eat breakfast at a local fast charger before getting back on the highway. Chain restaurants, chain hotels and fast chargers tend to be at the same exits, as they're all there to support road trips. 

Thought of this thread when I was in Tampa for work. My hotel window looked down on the 4 EV charging sports they had. Every day an employee parked in one, in their 04ish Nissan Murano. But at most I saw 2 EVs, leaving a spot free, including the jackass hotel employee's vehicle clogging one up. 

Do you pay for that charging when you book the room? Is it metered and billed to your room? 

Norma66-Brent
Norma66-Brent HalfDork
6/22/24 7:18 p.m.

Hey Tom. My lightning had the same failure. In the shop for 45 days. Been flawless since module replacement. 

Tom Suddard
Tom Suddard GRM+ Memberand Publisher
6/22/24 7:49 p.m.
Spearfishin said:
Tom Suddard said:
OHSCrifle said:

How many times has the hotel charger been occupied when you get there?
 

It's happened once or twice on roadtrips, but not usually. Most hotels with charging seem to have 2-4 chargers, while I've found one with a dozen of them. When they've all been full, I just eat breakfast at a local fast charger before getting back on the highway. Chain restaurants, chain hotels and fast chargers tend to be at the same exits, as they're all there to support road trips. 

Thought of this thread when I was in Tampa for work. My hotel window looked down on the 4 EV charging sports they had. Every day an employee parked in one, in their 04ish Nissan Murano. But at most I saw 2 EVs, leaving a spot free, including the jackass hotel employee's vehicle clogging one up. 

Do you pay for that charging when you book the room? Is it metered and billed to your room? 

It's almost always free, but when it is paid then you pay at the charger like any other station. 

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