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GTwannaB
GTwannaB GRM+ Memberand Reader
9/20/14 2:37 p.m.

So not to threadjack, it is a build related question. Could you put that Rotrex BP driveline in a RX8? Basically a reliable RX8 with better mileage and CARB legal.

Yeah, yeah, LS blah blah. All Mazda would be cooler.

oldeskewltoy
oldeskewltoy SuperDork
9/20/14 3:40 p.m.
GTwannaB wrote: So not to threadjack, it is a build related question. Could you put that Rotrex BP driveline in a RX8? Basically a reliable RX8 with better mileage and CARB legal. Yeah, yeah, LS blah blah. All Mazda would be cooler.

with that thinking... if the RX8 is 99-05 (AZ6), you could use the Rotrex boosted 4AGE...

Just think of what all the RX8 purists would do........

edit - not gonna be CARB legal since there isn't a new enough legal 4AGE...

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/20/14 4:59 p.m.

The easier solution on the RX8 would be to use an MZR motor. It's a literal bolt-in if you use the Miata subframe although you'll have to screw around with PPF fitment. Then hang the power adder of your choice off the side. We're working on a CARB legal supercharger for them.

Swank Force One
Swank Force One MegaDork
9/20/14 6:01 p.m.
GTwannaB wrote: So not to threadjack, it is a build related question. Could you put that Rotrex BP driveline in a RX8? Basically a reliable RX8 with better mileage and CARB legal. Yeah, yeah, LS blah blah. All Mazda would be cooler.

If you were working with an 04 rx8 and an 05 miata donor, maybe.

Vigo
Vigo PowerDork
9/20/14 10:43 p.m.
Ehhhh... i'd consider a Rotrex over a turbo regardless.

I would too IF they were similarly priced. But considering we're talking about track use (which is expensive) and $4000 mods on $4000 cars i really dont think that caveat has much meaning for the intended audience here.

Independent of price point, the setup looks beautifully simple. I'm drawn to it just because of the cleanliness of that engine bay vs so many other boosted miatas i've seen. Very nice looking setup!

Spinout007
Spinout007 GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
9/20/14 11:09 p.m.
Swank Force One wrote:
GTwannaB wrote: So not to threadjack, it is a build related question. Could you put that Rotrex BP driveline in a RX8? Basically a reliable RX8 with better mileage and CARB legal. Yeah, yeah, LS blah blah. All Mazda would be cooler.
If you were working with an 04 rx8 and an 05 miata donor, maybe.

I like that idea!

Swank Force One
Swank Force One MegaDork
9/21/14 9:01 a.m.
Vigo wrote:
Ehhhh... i'd consider a Rotrex over a turbo regardless.
I would too IF they were similarly priced. But considering we're talking about track use (which is expensive) and $4000 mods on $4000 cars i really dont think that caveat has much meaning for the intended audience here. Independent of price point, the setup looks beautifully simple. I'm drawn to it just because of the cleanliness of that engine bay vs so many other boosted miatas i've seen. Very nice looking setup!

They ARE similarly priced.

erohslc
erohslc HalfDork
9/21/14 10:05 a.m.
Emilio700 wrote: ... Now if we can just figure out a way to drive one with electric motors at whatever speed we want..

Yes, control of electric power is easy, but on cars is limited by the standard 12 volt system, it just requires too much current to deliver any meaningful power, yielding large diameter wire and ohmic losses.
Given that CVT transmissions are now so ubiquitous (my newly leased Civic has one, and it wasn't even mentioned in the sales literature), how long until we see the same technology employed on blowers?

Vigo
Vigo PowerDork
9/21/14 1:50 p.m.
They ARE similarly priced.

They can be very cheap depending on your knowledge level. Rotrex setups, on the other hand, never really fall into the cheap category because the charger itself is expensive. My local friend whose miata traps 120mph and has been on a $129 ebay turbo for 7 years has less in aftermarket hard parts than a bare Rotrex costs by itself.

But, a lot of people would rather be a racer with $4000 less dollars than a racer that's also dedicated untold amounts of time to learning how everything works and how to build forced induction setups for themselves and take full responsibility when anything goes wrong. Some people just want to bolt a kit on and go have fun. Good for them! Those people make it possible for people like Emilio and countless others to make a living selling things they CAN do to people who CANT (or wont) do them themselves.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/21/14 8:11 p.m.

It can also work out to be less expensive to buy a debugged kit developed by professionals instead of learning the hard way, even if your time is free.

Emilio700
Emilio700 New Reader
9/21/14 10:33 p.m.

Track video from yesterday

http://youtu.be/NmB9BOkMh64

Swank Force One
Swank Force One MegaDork
9/22/14 9:46 a.m.
Vigo wrote:
They ARE similarly priced.
They can be very cheap depending on your knowledge level. Rotrex setups, on the other hand, never really fall into the cheap category because the charger itself is expensive. My local friend whose miata traps 120mph and has been on a $129 ebay turbo for 7 years has less in aftermarket hard parts than a bare Rotrex costs by itself. But, a lot of people would rather be a racer with $4000 less dollars than a racer that's also dedicated untold amounts of time to learning how everything works and how to build forced induction setups for themselves and take full responsibility when anything goes wrong. Some people just want to bolt a kit on and go have fun. Good for them! Those people make it possible for people like Emilio and countless others to make a living selling things they CAN do to people who CANT (or wont) do them themselves.

Your friend is the exception, not the rule, though. And for apples/apples, you'd compare it against the tried and proven turbo kits on the market. FM2 for example. I know the car you speak of, and i can pretty much guarantee it wouldn't make it through a season of SuperMiata Challenge.

Pricing very similar. Probably even more so when you consider the ramifications of keeping both functioning reliably under hard track conditions.

nderwater
nderwater PowerDork
9/22/14 3:11 p.m.
Emilio700 wrote: Track video from yesterday http://youtu.be/NmB9BOkMh64

Despite the power, suspension and aero mods at work here I watch videos like that and can't help thinking that Miata is The Answer.

Emilio700
Emilio700 New Reader
9/22/14 4:19 p.m.
nderwater wrote: Despite the power, suspension and aero mods at work here I watch videos like that and can't help thinking that Miata is The Answer.

No aero. Just OEM R package front lip and rear spoiler. See the pic in the OP.

ProDarwin
ProDarwin UltraDork
9/23/14 9:08 a.m.
erohslc wrote:
Emilio700 wrote: ... Now if we can just figure out a way to drive one with electric motors at whatever speed we want..
Yes, control of electric power is easy, but on cars is limited by the standard 12 volt system, it just requires too much current to deliver any meaningful power, yielding large diameter wire and ohmic losses.

See my post earlier. You shouldn't need nearly the huge power if you only use the electric motor to vary the ratio (drive the currently fixed set of planetary gears), not actually drive the blower.

Approx how much power does it take to spin a rotrex at 7500rpm?

Emilio700
Emilio700 New Reader
9/23/14 11:50 a.m.
ProDarwin wrote: Yes, control of electric power is easy, but on cars is limited by the standard 12 volt system, it just requires too much current to deliver any meaningful power, yielding large diameter wire and ohmic losses. See my post earlier. You shouldn't need nearly the huge power if you only use the electric motor to vary the ratio (drive the currently fixed set of planetary gears), not actually drive the blower. Approx how much power does it take to spin a rotrex at 7500rpm?

12-20hp depending on the blower size. Roughly half what a MP62 requires.

Harvey
Harvey Reader
9/24/14 12:14 p.m.

I watched the video. I will take one please.

Wait, I forgot, I'm selling my Miata and getting out of that game.

beans
beans Dork
9/27/14 5:49 p.m.

Now that my pile no longer has a/c, I think a rotrex would fit lovely in the empty spot. 250 whp with smooth delivery sounds lovely for autocross work.

icaneat50eggs
icaneat50eggs Dork
9/22/15 10:47 p.m.

So did this kit ever actually happen?

84FSP
84FSP HalfDork
9/23/15 7:16 a.m.

Great minds think alike...

edizzle89 wrote:
fidelity101 wrote: I would love to rotrex my wankel one day.
sounds dirty
Emilio700
Emilio700 New Reader
9/23/15 11:06 a.m.

In reply to icaneat50eggs:

Jackson Racing is behind schedule but yeah, it's happening. NA6 an NA8 kits are pretty much done. NB kits will likely be early 2016.

Slippery
Slippery GRM+ Memberand Dork
9/23/15 11:32 a.m.

Will this be similar on what was on Oscar Sr's car back in 2010?

I drove my KW supercharged S2000 from Florida to California and needed a part that broke on the way. I called Oscar Jr and they waited for me at the shop late at night, gave me the part free and took me on a tour of the facility.

Sr then asked me if I had ever tried In and Out burgers and proceded to take me and my wife along with Jr over for some burgers.

He had a black or dark green Miata, it was fast and a lot of fun.

Not sure they are still involved with KW or even Jackson Racing, but what a bunch of good guys and that was a cool little set-up.

If I remember correctly the belt had theeth (?) on both sides.

JamesMcD
JamesMcD Dork
9/23/15 12:27 p.m.
erohslc wrote:
Emilio700 wrote: ... Now if we can just figure out a way to drive one with electric motors at whatever speed we want..
Yes, control of electric power is easy, but on cars is limited by the standard 12 volt system, it just requires too much current to deliver any meaningful power, yielding large diameter wire and ohmic losses. Given that CVT transmissions are now so ubiquitous (my newly leased Civic has one, and it wasn't even mentioned in the sales literature), how long until we see the same technology employed on blowers?

CVT supercharger? How about 1957? Used in Studebaker Golden Hawks amongst others.

Emilio700
Emilio700 New Reader
9/23/15 12:46 p.m.
Slippery wrote: Will this be similar on what was on Oscar Sr's car back in 2010? I drove my KW supercharged S2000 from Florida to California and needed a part that broke on the way. I called Oscar Jr and they waited for me at the shop late at night, gave me the part free and took me on a tour of the facility. Sr then asked me if I had ever tried In and Out burgers and proceded to take me and my wife along with Jr over for some burgers. He had a black or dark green Miata, it was fast and a lot of fun. Not sure they are still involved with KW or even Jackson Racing, but what a bunch of good guys and that was a cool little set-up. If I remember correctly the belt had theeth (?) on both sides.

Oscar Jackson is Jackson Racing. He parted ways with Kraftwerks in early 2011.

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