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preach (dudeist priest)
preach (dudeist priest) GRM+ Memberand Dork
4/21/22 3:45 p.m.

In reply to nocones :

Do your next GRM interview on it.

maschinenbau
maschinenbau GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
4/21/22 7:09 p.m.

RE: Sharing crazy builds to a wider internet audience:

I feel you. Not everyone "gets it", which is why I post so much more technical (and otherwise) detail here. The GRM crowd is the best car community and I trust their opinions and experience. But it's nice to show off to a broad audience every now and then. Scratches that vanity itch, keeps your motivation fresh, starts a few dumb arguments, and sometimes you learn something new. Which reminds me, I need to drag that hot rod out of my garage sometime this year...

Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter)
Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/21/22 7:13 p.m.
preach (dudeist priest) said:

In reply to nocones :

Do your next GRM interview on it.

He should invite a couple of the Challenge judges to sit down & have a rest on it while he gives his concours presentation. 

VolvoHeretic
VolvoHeretic GRM+ Memberand Reader
4/21/22 7:26 p.m.

It looks outrageous. I like outrageous. Good job. yeslaugh

sleepyhead the buffalo
sleepyhead the buffalo PowerDork
4/21/22 8:44 p.m.
Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) said:
preach (dudeist priest) said:

In reply to nocones :

Do your next GRM interview on it.

He should invite a couple of the Challenge judges to sit down & have a rest on it while he gives his concours presentation. 

it'll be removable... so, unbolt it for concourse and turn it around so they can sit and see the car

wvumtnbkr
wvumtnbkr GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
4/21/22 9:29 p.m.
sleepyhead the buffalo said:
Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) said:
preach (dudeist priest) said:

In reply to nocones :

Do your next GRM interview on it.

He should invite a couple of the Challenge judges to sit down & have a rest on it while he gives his concours presentation. 

it'll be removable... so, unbolt it for concourse and turn it around so they can sit and see the car

That is berkeleying brilliant for the concourse.

VolvoHeretic
VolvoHeretic GRM+ Memberand Reader
4/21/22 10:40 p.m.

Give rides on it. The ultimate thrill. smiley

Recon1342
Recon1342 SuperDork
4/21/22 10:51 p.m.
VolvoHeretic said:

Give rides on it. The ultimate thrill. smiley

+1

ian sane
ian sane Dork
4/22/22 10:24 a.m.
VolvoHeretic said:

Give rides on it. The ultimate thrill. smiley

I just pictured some carnival ride seats attached. Hilarious.

nocones
nocones GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
4/22/22 3:41 p.m.

I will have to figure something hilarious out with the front wing.  

 

Ok so reality time.  It is 20 days before Hyperfest and this is the state of the car.  Like literally this picture was taken at lunch today.

In order to run Hyperfest it would need a bunch of work done in the next 3 weeks.  And realistically I would prefer to run it on a track not 12.5 hours from my house to ensure it doesn't break immediately.  There are local trackdays on the 7th, but that means it would have to be "ready" in 14 days.    Major items between me and there are, New Radiators, Side pod mockup, fix the door openings on the body, mount the rear fenders, make a basic spliter to hold the front end together, make permanent fenders for all 4 corners of the car, cut apart the seat area to mount the Fuel Cell, and Paint the car because NASA says "No primer".  Long story short that level of Thrash just isn't in the cards at this time.   The LMP360 just isn't going to make it to Hyperfest this year.    The next event I had planned after that is Gridlife at Autobahn CC at the end of June (Because I didn't clear the lottery for Gridlife MW festival).  That seems very realistic to have the car done for so that's the new goal.  Events I want to do pickup after that so by that point it would be nice to have the car in the state that it is getting refined rather then bulk build still happening. 

I am going to sit on it for a few more days and decide if I want to drag the MG out to Hyperfest or not.  I have until 10 days prior to cancel and make someone on the HPDE3 waiting lists dreams come true.   The hesitance around bringing the MG is the last time it was on track was in Sept of 2020 so it needs a healthy going through, and it needs the Fuel Cell from the 360 borrowed and mounted to be NASA legal.    Getting it prepared is just going to take more time away from the LMP360, plus the 5 days at Hyperfest are time I could spend advancing the challenge car effort.  

I was really looking forward to going but reality is making it look unlikely.   

Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter)
Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/22/22 6:56 p.m.

In reply to nocones :

I really wanted to go too, just to hang out & check out some of their musical events while I was there. But the RV isn't ready for a road trip yet & current fuel prices are a bit of a dissuasion anyway. 

VolvoHeretic
VolvoHeretic GRM+ Memberand Reader
4/22/22 8:00 p.m.

Just bring it on a trailer, it will drive people bat E36 M3 crazy. It doesn't even need to run. smiley

nocones
nocones GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
4/23/22 9:12 p.m.
VolvoHeretic said:

Just bring it on a trailer, it will drive people bat E36 M3 crazy. It doesn't even need to run. smiley

I totally would if it wasn't so far away.  Hard to justify $500 of gas just for the LOLZ.   But it would be cool.

GaryC83
GaryC83 New Reader
4/23/22 9:18 p.m.

If you do make it out to autobahn for that event, I'll have to try to make it out there. It's about a 30-45 minute cruise from the shop, so I'll have to head up that way for sure. Love to see that thing. Such a bitchin project. 

nocones
nocones GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
4/25/22 10:31 a.m.

In reply to GaryC83 :

That would be awesome to meet you.  For sure I'll let everyone know.  

nocones
nocones GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
4/25/22 11:08 a.m.

Sick kids this weekend and wife out of town meant little work.  I snuck a half hour in Sat and Sunday to clean the garage and put the car back on the lift.

I dropped the wing and the look with no wind isn't bad so I am confident a smaller alternative element can be made that looks good with the bodywork being common.  

The someone from the D/EM group thinks I should make a 8sq-ft rear wing and a splitter based front that should allow the car to run in EM.  If that's the case I really think I will run the car at Nationals this year.  I have the vacation available and am free that week.   That way my $2000 challenge car will run Gridlife Trackdays, rock a few big car shows (SubieFest Midwest, available for booth duty at PRI Hint Hint GRM, any company want to throw rims or tires on it I'll drag it to SEMA), Run SCCA Solo Nationals, and run the Challenge in the same year.  Then next spring UTCC??  That would be a sweet 12 months. 

 

sleepyhead the buffalo
sleepyhead the buffalo PowerDork
4/25/22 1:03 p.m.

In reply to nocones :

What are the limits to E-Mod splitters? They have to be flat? any area limits?  Any nose profile restrictions?

nocones
nocones GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
4/25/22 1:10 p.m.

In reply to sleepyhead the buffalo :

I'll have to look at the rules.  I believe it's 8" depth stickout from body, has to closed on top side to body, has to be attached to body, no more then 1" slope front to back and flat across.   

I can run 8 sq-ft of rear wing and 1.6 sq-ft of diveplanes on the front.  

 

I think I could close in below the current opening and basically have the front of a more traditional LMP car and have it basically be legal.  I think I could have openings between the wheels and hood and justify it as Radiator cooling.  I wonder with as open as the back of the front is if a low splitter fully sealed with a sloped profile would really be that much worse then a wing.  Evacuation behind this element would be strong and there is no rule about closing the splitter to the undertray that I am aware of so the gap behind it before the flat bottom inlet behind the wheels would let the suction behind the front bodywork not occur on a flat floor below it.  

The biggest impact may be in diffuser as it can only be 25" deep.  But there doesn't seem to be a rule about height or a prohibition of like a double diffuser.  

I don't think Mod legal aero could be as good as Giant wings and massive diffusers but it could probably be pretty good.

I hadn't really looked into this at all because I just assumed the car was "proceed directly to AMod do not pass go" so I was surprised to learn that the D/EM folk seem to consider the car close enough to looking sorta like a Subaru 360.  I think realistically they know it won't be competitive and just want something ridiculous looking playing in their sandbox because they are fun people.  

sleepyhead the buffalo
sleepyhead the buffalo PowerDork
4/25/22 1:46 p.m.

In reply to nocones :

There's not specification that dive planes / canards have to be "outboard", is there?

nocones
nocones GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
4/25/22 2:16 p.m.

In reply to sleepyhead the buffalo :

I don't think so.  One thought I had was to putting them above the splitter inboard of the headlights and in front of the opening.   Again I need to read those rules sometime in detail.

nocones
nocones GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
4/26/22 11:50 a.m.

Progress on fuel cell mounting.   

So the fuel cell is a big box that has to fit inside a car that already has 10 lbs of stuff in a 5 lb bag.   There is plenty of space behind the seats but in front of the engine but there is no access.   Options where split the car at the chassis, pull the engine out and insert the tank from the back.  Or, get Sawzally and cut out the drivers seat to insert it from the cabin.   

It won't be a comon task to pull the tank but it for sure would need to happen before the challenge and then be reinserted if the post challenge track day happens.   Splitting the car isn't impossible but it requires a lot of work so I chose violence.  

So after the triumphant return of the sawzall to the LMP360 project this is where I am.

 

This mess will just basically bolt back in.  I don't have to remake it just make it removable.  The seat aluminum will need to be modified some.  

I had to remove some of the vertical because the top edges of the cell are 19" wide and those verticals are only 18" appart.  I may have been able to wedge it in, but this seems like it will be easier to make the seat bolt in.  

The firewall will get flanges so it can be bolted or riveted in from the cabin side over the top of the cell after install.  

I cut out the old temporary fuel tank and mounts and it will not be going back on the car at all.   I also removed the radiator and hoses.  These will be replaced with different ones for the new radiators.    Together that is -$90.13 but again some of that will come back.  

+2 Hrs, -$90.13

gumby
gumby GRM+ Memberand Dork
5/2/22 9:09 a.m.

Robbie (Forum Supporter)
Robbie (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
5/2/22 11:12 a.m.

In reply to gumby :

Anxiously awaiting updates....

nocones
nocones GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
5/3/22 2:47 p.m.

This weekend Robbie and Gumby both stopped by separately. That meant the Bad Decision Triangle was in the garage but not at at the same time. We uncharacteristically made good decisions and lots of progress.

Robbie and I got the Fuel Cell completely mounted. Robbie designed the whole thing because I was too close to it and my brain just wanted to make something super complicated. Robbies like.. Just strap it down. The mounts are some 1x horizontal tubes to make a flat base for the front and rear of the tank. These tubes have some 5/16 captive nuts in them to secure tank straps. Tank straps are 2 strips of 16ga Mild Steel with some old bike intertube slid over the top. Many a joke where made during that process.  

I made 2 aluminum sheets to finish out the firewall that was cut away. The lower part of the original firewall was re-used and a 1” wider piece remade for the top.  

We then moved on to trying to mount the radiators. My plan was to use 2 radiators designed for an original Mini. These radiators are tiny, dual core, and available online for $64. I ordered two of them and was going to mount them in the sidepods. So after cutting away the old fuel tank, and old battery mount we mocked them up. Again Robbie with his great Ideas was like.. Why not just buy 1 properly sized radiator to go behind half the seats like you had before? There is this big cavity that was made for a radiator.. So after some Googling it looked like a Civic Radiator would fit almost perfectly behind the passenger seat. I didn’t have one, but Amazon did for $60 with free shipping and it was only 1 day away. That got Ordered and Robbie went home. But not before finding a new home for the battery in the front of the car. He correctly reasoned that I can use the cost savings of only 1 radiator to pay the money for a longer battery cable.  

Gumby arrived and got to work modifying the original battery mount to work in the new location. He hacked at the original mount and managed to make a new really effective mount out of only about Half of it. All in all he probably saved 2 lbs off the car, and re-used the non-bed frame parts of the mount so all the cost was already in the build. I think he must be attending the Nik Blackhurst school of Bracketology.  

The last thing we got done was making the plates to re-attach the seat frame. I made some captive nut plates that were inserted into the tubes and welded in. Then Gumby made the most professional looking 1x4” long plates I’ve ever seen.  

Yesterday the Civic Radiator arrived. A quick slide into the car from the side revealed that yes it most definitely is nearly perfect. I can either mount it with a straight reducing coupler to the water manifold outlet, or I can offset it and use the same basic crazy loop hose I had on the car with the Subaru Radiator. This method brings it about 6” outboard which would benefit airflow so I may do that despite it requiring a more complicated radiator hose. The U bend was $11 because it was made out of a exhaust U bend. I can probably weld something up for much cheaper now that I have a bit more time to figure it out. For the lower hose the Subaru is designed to discharge the water out to the Left but the radiator is on the Right. This would require a 180* hose. But we realized that you can just clock the radiator outlet 180* wich gives it a straight shot accross the front of the oilpan to the radiator. So now I just have to make a few lower mounts for the radiator, and make a sealed duct to get it to the sidepod. There may be enough room for a pull fan behind the radiator. I will measure after I get it mounted. 

Overall it was a good weekend of work and fun times were had by all.  

Total added cost $2.13 (Only the base frame and seat plates stay on the car everything else is removed for the challenge). +26 Hours (8 Hrs X 2 with Robbie, 5 Hrs X 2 with Gumby)

 

golfduke
golfduke Dork
5/4/22 8:32 a.m.

I love the KISS method of engineering that went into all of your projects this weekend.  Dual radiators just always screamed to me 'twice the leaks and twice the effort to bleed', but my hack mechanic inner conscious just told me to shut up and let the geniuses do their thing. 

 

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