Nocones $2020 challenge build thread

In reply to AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) :

Bucky Lasek

preach (dudeist priest) said:

In reply to AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) :

Bucky Lasek

The skateboarder?

In reply to Racebrick :

Yes he's a big fan of the car.

You're working faster than I currently have the capacity to comment about!
 

if you're reworking the intake inlet... I'd suggest bringing the top of it forward, so it's 'flat', or maybe even leaning forward.  Both for visual and aerodynamic reasons.  Compared to now, where it's looking like it's leaned back...

I wouldn't worry about siphoning off the boundary layer... but you might pop the hood on your SUV and look at the snorkel intake it has... usually there's a prominent triangular ramp on the entrance that (iirc) is meant to pull ingested precipitated water out of the flow... which you'd want to try and give a path to drip away... instead of getting sucked in to the intake.

re:boundary layer, and raised entrance...  
my main concern is the relatively sharp angle of the windshield, and relatively short/tight radius of the windshield frame.  I suspect the flow will have some detachment and/or bubbles as it transits onto the roof.

I reckon at autocross speeds... the low pressure of the intake will draw things in well enough.  I think the most likely thing to watch out for at challenge, is if the engine feels like it stumbles as it transit the 'top'/'fast' end of the drag strip.  In which case... have some VG's to place on the front frame *might* help that.

re: rear shell vents.   
my main thought on that, is to be a little weary of those.  I suspect they'll need to be more like a louver shape, so the front edge creates a small low pressure zone to aid evacuation out from the engine bay.  Otherwise, the backside of that shroud will be in a generally 'higher pressure zone' of the car.

I kind of wonder about making vertical slits back there... and then using the side windows to create a flow that follows the shape of the shell between it and the roll ar tube, compressing in Ax, and spat out in the first slit... which would create a localized low pressure to pull flow out of the next slits as they go toward the shark fin... which will give those flows something to attach/align to.

is that clean as mud at all?

also, vertical slits in the shroud will match those in the original engine cover further down.

ymmv, my $0.02, do what's most expedient... etc

edit:  also, what's the engine capacity and engine RPM.max, again?

In reply to nocones :

Where do you buy your fiberglass supplies? I'm gonna go deep into fiberglass panels for MonZora V2.

In reply to AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) :

I gave my last thumbs up for that comment. I wish I had more...

In reply to AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) :

Might be different around you guys, but we have enough marine supply stores around us that the bigger ones usually have the cloth for the cheapest.  Epoxy/polyester resin varies per shop.

Mr_Asa said:

In reply to AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) :

Might be different around you guys, but we have enough marine supply stores around us that the bigger ones usually have the cloth for the cheapest.  Epoxy/polyester resin varies per shop.

I'm pretty close to 2 of 5 Great Lakes, so we've definitely got a ton of boat places around here. I guess I'll have to break out the yellow pages.

In reply to AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) :

Look for some place that's still independent and has been around for a couple decades or more.  Down here I like T.A. Mahoney's, started as a hardware store in the 30s or 40s and gradually started adding marine supplies in the 50s and they're still kicking as a pure marine supply store.

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to nocones :

Where do you buy your fiberglass supplies? I'm gonna go deep into fiberglass panels for MonZora V2.

It's a hodge podge of randomness because we don't have any local suppliers that aren't automotive body shops who think Resin is $200/gallon.

For Polyester resin I bought "Bondo" resin at Farm and Fleet for $37.99/gallon.  It is now $42.99/gallon but that is still by far the cheapest I have seen for any kind of Fiberglass Resin.  I am confident the Bondo stuff is way worser then the specialty named resins but I couldn't find anything online for <$60/gallon landed. 

For Epoxy resin I am using US Composites 635 slow.  It's $78.50/gallon but it actually makes 1.5 gallons with the hardener.   Shipping is brutal on this.  My build is carying almost $60 worth of shipping (prorated by cost) for this product, but even with shipping it was again about half of the cost of any epoxy I could get local.  It's gone up to $100 as most "resins" have.  

For E-glass I am using US composites 4 oz glass at $5.25 a yard.  Again this carries some amount of the Pro-rated $60 shipping when on the car.  Even accounting for shipping I couldn't find anything cheaper.

For CSM I bought 10 yards of Random Amazon 1.5 oz matt that was $6.60/yard.  Again couldn't do better landed despite being able to order it for ~$3.50/yard.  I am averaging 30 oz resin per yard which is 12 sq-ft.  That's PER layer.  Most CSM parts have required 2 layers. 

For CSM/polyester 2 layer parts I'm at ~$2.40/sq-ft.     

For the Epoxy resin I'm only using that when I am making the foam sandwich panels so it is 1 layer on both sides of a piece of foam.  Those 2 layers with the Pink foam I'm at $2.56/sq-ft.  2 layers of the Eglass are not structural without the foam core.  

22 days until load out update:

Shark Fin has been cut out and the top and back reinforcement glued on.  I still need to add wood to the bottom above the trunk lid.  I'm going to leave the curved roof part un edged because it will be bonded to the roof.  

This panel was made the same way I made the underbody except it is 3/4" thick foam because the vertical metal is 3/4".  

With gluing this to the foam I use the polyurethane glue and simply tape it in where I want it.  The tape has to be pulled pretty tight but just the tape holds it in place while the glue foams and drys.  

Ok so the fin is not actually mounted, it needs coated in fiberglass, and it is only Fingershopped blue (Photoshop but with my phone's highlighter) but oh giggity this is cool.

So on car work that's +1.5 hours, +$1.87 foam.  The Cedar used here is leftover parts from when I cut up the 3 pickets used on the Aero. 

Which is a good segway to the other item I worked on last night.

I updated my official "2000ChallengeBudgetSheet".   In interest of linearity I started with the 2021 budget sheet.  I went down the sheet and zero'd out items that where on the car in 2021 but are now removed.  They are still on the sheet but the $ amount is 0 now.  This also makes my Receipt list still accurate so the copy of the receipts binder still works and all new parts are just added.   I then updated bulk materials and added any new purchases since the 2021 event.  Before I say the result I want to pull back the curtain a bit so you understand my system a little.  

I track the car in 3 spaces.  I have my "Tube $" tab of my Google sheet for the project where I track bulk material useage to the inch/yard/ounce/sq-ft by part.  So ever part I fabricated from raw materials on the car is documented on this sheet.   The total of this sheet is not the Build budget.  It is just the total of Raw Materials tracked that way.   I have a "Log" tab where I track what I did on build days, track hours, and sum the cost for that days work.  So when I say +Y hrs, +$X.XX it comes from that sheet.  The total on that sheet is the easy to keep track of "unofficial/Apparent" car budget.  

Because a fabricated part or work evening can sometimes have 3-4 entries on the "Tube $" for raw materials, and then have numerous purchased components on one day, occasionally I may make a mistake on this "log" and the  apparent budget will diverge from the "Official" budget.  When I build the Official budget, I take the raw material totals by material (because I need to reference the receipt that purchased them) and list each material as a single line item on the "Offical" budget.  I'll bring a copy of the "Tube $" spreadsheet just to show what parts where made from each component.  I then use the "Log" to remind me what I built each day and pull receipts for purchased parts to ensure the "official" budget is 100% accurate.   I will include a copy of the "Log" sheet in the binder as well, however I will hide the budget column because it doesn't always match up exactly for the reasons discussed.  It simply isn't my official budget.  It's what I thought the total was, but everything reflected on that log is in the Offical budget at it's real cost.

So where am I?  The budget for all work to date, as well as reflecting the Estimate for the Planned work prior to the challenge is $1926.06.   This is provisional subject to a few reviews by me to ensure it's accuracy.  There is also a few things I'd Like to do that will be $15-20.  

Overall I'm pleased.  I don't have to take a hacksaw to parts of the car, or remove stuff to stay under budget.  I knew I would be "Close" as the "Log" sheet has the total at ~$1970 but again the review of the official budget found some items I hadn't removed from the Log and I had the incorrect cost for a few bulk materials.

Tonight I hope to Epoxy the Fin and then start disassembly for the fuel tank swap.

Am I the only one experiencing withdrawal symptoms and a sore index finger from constantly clicking refresh on this thread?

You can't just up the ante like this and then leave us hanging man. It is not right.

Looks great with the shark fin. 

Unfortunately I had a few family things come up that kept me out of the garage for the last 2 days but tonight I'm back at it.  

Just wanted to confirm your method here:

Make buck for part.

Cover part in packing tape as a release agent. 

Two layers of fiberglass and resin (specifics?)

Pop out

Body filler to "race car pretty"

Paint

Right? Any reason i couldn't replicate fenders or bumpers with this method?

In reply to Dusterbd13-michael :

You got it.  That's literally the method.   I recommend purchase of a resin roller and you roll the E36 M3 out of it to get it as smooth as possible.  

But otherwise it's a super thin layer of Bondo.  The surface finish really isn't bad after Bondo.  It's probably above race car smooth and approaching Maaco smooth.  

In reply to nocones :

You using chopped or woven mat? Polyester or epoxy resin?

In reply to Dusterbd13-michael :

I'm using Chopped Strand Matt whenever I am using Polyester resin.  

I use 1.5oz woven E glass with epoxy.   The CSM I bought apparently has binders that epoxy will dissolve but since I'm building parts for stiffness vs strength I've not seen a point in trying CSM with epoxy.  

I am planning to make a "Fiberglass by a Dummy" video after the Challenge.  Literally cover what it took for me to go from owning absolutely nothing related to Fiberglass to making Fiberglass parts.  I have a few parts on the car I want to make post challenge so I'll have some stuff to film the process.  It's not exactly new ground but most of the videos I've seen don't start literally at ground zero with what tools and equipment you need to get started from the bottom.  

I've made some progress on the fin.  

I decided to put a wood rim around the whole thing and put some t nuts in the base to attach it to the roof.  I figured glassing it on would just be to slow given the amount of feathering I'd have to do with bondo.  

I cut some of my cedar into 3/4*1/4 strips.  I started from one end stacking them and drilling them through for the T nuts.   As the piece flexed I drilled the holes in the subsequent t nuts.  I then used some more polyurethane glue to hold this together after drilling all the holes.   I put some tape on upright below the screws so I could then "clamp" the fin onto my wood spar and everything could dry in situ.  

Its pretty rigid.  I am able to remove the roof and flip it over and everything stays nice and tight.  

I then added the rest of the wood frame and put on one side of fiberglass 

Work continues.  The fin is now done and dry.  I will install it and paint it blue then be able to mount the roof.  I have some over center larches that I'm going to use so it's toolless removal.  

Then it was time to run backwards very quickly.  I drilled out all my seat rivets and pulled the seat all appart to remove the fuel cell.  Now I have space to fabricate a fuel tank.  

I think I'm just going to make a ~2 gallon tank.  I will only be able to run for 10 minutes or so at the FIRM but I'm not sure I want to tear the seat all appart in the Best Western parking lot to swap to the cell.  

I then moved to the front of the car to a job I've been avoiding because it's going to suck.  The headlights.   

Subaru in their infinite wisdom made the fenders out of ~24ga metal.  The fenders have small flanges which are spot welded onto the headlight buckets.  As can be expected these two decisions conspire to make the 1" around the headlight bucket rusty tissue paper.  You can see in all the pictures if the car just how bad they are.  

So it all had to go and be replaced.  The passenger side removal didn't take a tool.  I just cut the zip ties I had patched it with and yanked.  The drivers side took some grinding but way less then it should have.  

With the old buckets out of the way I began making new ones.   The original headlights bolted into some stamped frames that allowed for adjustment.  As this isn't a road car and the headlights are not actually for driving they can be fixed so I am using those frames to make the buckets.   Some sheet metal was welded on to the bottom half and trimmed where it meet the suggested location of the fender.   Mostly these buckets where placed using the headlight covers that I have.  These are plastic covers that go over the fender and are very recognizable 360 components. 

I used a piece of aluminum to hold the buckets while I built the fender back to them to hold them.   

I'm not panel beating expert but these will work.  A thin layer of filler and it should be great.  And they won't fall out because they are made of metal.  That said OMG welding to the OEM metal is the worst.   So many holes that had to be filled, then hit with a hammer to release the stress in the cooled weld.  

So that's where I am.  I'll total up the metal for the buckets but it's going to be ~1sq-ft total so ~$1.20

Wow 24ga is seriously thin for that era. Nicely executed sheetmetal work.

Ok a short detour while Nocones Garage became Nocones Garage and Furniture emporium.  

I was requested to make this shelf thing for an outdoor wedding this week.  So I did.  It's done now.  Yay.

Furniture shop closed.  Back to racecar parts. 

Also it's hilarious how bendy the top shelf looks due to camera lense distortion effects.  

Small amount of work yesterday because furniture shop but I got the fin mounted and painted and 1 more patch panel welded on the passenger headlight.   

I've not quit.  Still plugging away.  The headlight repair continues.  Passenger is basically done and the drivers is halfway.  

My tire change guy asked if I had any rims he could use this weekend for an Autox.  I didn't want to loan out the RFP1S and the Challenge ties so. I said the only ones I had where the outback ones that have old used RE71S.  There going to get ran at an event this weekend and then he will swap the RT660s onto them for the challenge.  

That meant painting the rims had to move up in my timeline.   My original plan was to paint them Krylon Metallic Gold which was basically the color of the RFP1S.   That paint sucks.  It covers like trash.  After using almost half a can on the back of 1 rim I had or get a new plan.   I sanded all that paint off and went and got some Ace premium gloss khaki.  I didn't want to do a solid color but after seeing the results I love it.  Coverage was excellent with only needing 1 can to do all the rims.  

And then I added some flair. 

The pink is the closest thing krylon makes to STI pink.  Pink may or may not show up in more places on the car.   It should look really cool rolling along. 

 I like the pink.  Paint on the hub centers looks a bit weird though, maybe continue the pie slice through that instead of painting the entire hub piece?