Project "Wine&Cheese" - Cayenne Diesel Overland

angusmf said:

Badass. Someday when we need more towing and offroad capacity, will need to replace our Alltrack with something like this.

When all the issues are fixed I plan to pickup an 16ft or 18ft open hauler and will report on how it does towing, I expect it will do well!  It may need some helper air springs in the rear to help with sag depending on tongue weight.

If this guy can do it with a GT3, I'm sure ours will handle an NA miata just fine

People are even towing cayennes with cayennes, so meta

I dunno, I think it boils down to the dealer and relationship you have with them and the service writer.  I have a pretty good service writer, he goes to bat for us.  At the same time our CD has been pretty good.  I took it to them last summer right before the CPO warranty expired to have them check it over for oil leaks etc and it was pronounced go to go.  We'll probably keep it another 3 years or so and then replace it, at that point it'll be completely out of warranty.

docwyte said:

I dunno, I think it boils down to the dealer and relationship you have with them and the service writer.  I have a pretty good service writer, he goes to bat for us.  At the same time our CD has been pretty good.  I took it to them last summer right before the CPO warranty expired to have them check it over for oil leaks etc and it was pronounced go to go.  We'll probably keep it another 3 years or so and then replace it, at that point it'll be completely out of warranty.

We did find a dealer and service writer that is much more helpful than a few others we tried closer to Detroit that cater to the, lets say, more elite crowd (Penske frequents their shop as well as NBA and NFL playeres).

Turns out it was the coolant bypass valve that is notorious for leaking.  

https://rennlist.com/forums/cayenne-958-2011-2018/1165059-cayenne-diesel-coolant-leak-need-help.html

Well, that's a lot for the coolant bypass valve.  My 2011 3.0tdi valve is up front on the thermostat housing.  Of course, your swirl flap carbon deposits are easy to clean, and I'm going to have to remove just as this job much to clean out my flaps.

I was hoping to put some more fun project updates in here like bigger tires, braid wheels (maybe!), and skid plate fabrication. Sadly, the VAG dieselgate curse struck again.

First, the NOX Sensor 2 set faults for P2201 Nox Sensor performance, and P20EE for SCR efficiency (this is secondary since the model for P20EE uses inputs from NOX sensor 1 and NOX sensor 2 for efficiency).  We had it at the dealer for 4 weeks until this was fixed under warranty, they actually replaced both NOX Sensor 1 and NOX Sensor 2.  

DTCs Set: P2201, P20EE, P229F, P229E. Fix: NOX Sensor 1 and 2 replaced by dealer under emissions warranty.

Went on a road trip to Iowa, and made it there on about 3/4 tank of fuel and drove great getting 30mpg going with 75mph average.  A couple days into the trip it started idling VERY rough after pulling to a stop, I thought this might be from a rough transition to regen and checked with the POR II scan tool and found that was not the case.  After idling awhile longer it devolved into a much rougher idle and set injector DTCs.  I limped it to the closest fuel station and added some fresh diesel and diesel injector cleaner, hoping that it was just a bad batch of diesel, but that didn't work.  Looking at the datastream, injection quantity deviation is way out on several cylinders (doesnt appear to be focused on one bank).  The fuel filter was replaced at the last oil change, so I don't suspect that is the issue; the fuel pressure is meeting setpoint and not setting a low fuel pressure DTC, so a clogged filter or failing highg pressure fuel pump is not likely.  The best I can guess is an injector or injector seal failure.

Vehicle is INOP and I'll be shipping it back to the dealer in MI.

DTCs Set: P0263 Cyl. 1 balance, P0302 Cyl. 2 misfire, P0278 Cyl. 6 balance, P0266 Cyl. 2 balance.  Fix: ship vehicle to dealer, TBD

I might be done with this experiment, as much as a I love the 957 platform I just don't have time to leave a vehicle at a dealer for weeks at a time when no loaners or shuttles are available.  Over the course of 6000miles I've had these issues which have put the car down for weeks at a time: main seal oil leak, coolant bypass valve leak, NOX sensor failure, injector failures (unknown cause yet).

Once it's fixed we'll figure out a plan, but a Tacoma or 4Runner is the only similar vehicle I can think of that makes any sense to buy in this crazy market.

In reply to engiekev :

Ah, the joys of modern German diesels...  I feel your pain, man.

wae said:

In reply to engiekev :

Ah, the joys of modern German diesels...  I feel your pain, man.

If I had tools and more time, I'd buy a new fuel filter and give that a try with injector cleaner right in the filter tank.  But with this stuff still being covered by the emissions warranty it's not worth the effort.

I have a lot better luck with diesels in my tractors! Those have Japanese engines though, Mitsubishi and Daihatsu.

I wonder how others fare with modern "domestic" 1500 truck tiny diesels, the FCA is an Italian VM-Motori engine, GM baby duramax is a GM-Italy design, and the Ford tiny powerstroke is a Jaguar-LandRover engine.

Hopefully it's just a couple of injectors, but those are some of the telltale signs of the Bosch CP4 pump failing; they don't always trigger the low pressure warning, but that many injectors going bad at once can only have so many causes... 

  Good news is that under Dieselgate, it can sometimes result in an entire new engine for you! At the very least it's complete new fuel system from stem to stern.  The bad news is , as you know, it can take a LONG time for these repairs to complete under warranty.

No loaners or shuttle?  My Porsche dealer has loaners and if they happen to not have one at the time, they'll pay for your Uber/Lyft home and back to the dealer...

I wish you would have just built the super Pathfinder.  I know, it's not at unique but it also lacked unique problems.

Carry on.

akylekoz said:

I wish you would have just built the super Pathfinder.  I know, it's not at unique but it also lacked unique problems.

Carry on.

I am missing its simplicity at the moment! It sure was fun to rev out.

One of the closer dealers offers shuttles, but this one is a bit too far away. The closer dealer didn't want to deal with warranty work.

It was odd that several injectors set codes at once, still surprising that the values for high fuel pressure is fine. Well find out when the dealer gets to it, more to come. I really wonder if the Kroger diesel we regularly use was not up to par, I had bad luck with gas at that station before.

In reply to engiekev :

We use Kroger diesel all the time.  If anything it's the best to use as it's one of the most popular stations, so the diesel is always fresh...

Aww man, that stinks. 

We found a dealer that was closer that we'll be using for the warranty repair. Strangely, the service advisor mentioned that the diesel warranty extends to Porsche Roadside free tows. This was not the case (at least for our VIN), they stated if the vehicle was 2018+ it would be covered for free, I'm not sure if that is standard for all Porsche or just diesel vehicles.

Hopefully the dealer will be forthcoming with what the root cause of the issue turns out to be, I'm certainly interested.

Long overdue update.  The vehicle has been at a dealership since May, prefer not to disclose names here.   Basically it looks like I'll have to pay for an engine swap somehow, the dealership and Porsche are both throwing their hands up.

Here's where its at:

• Had vehicle towed to Porsche dealership (early May)
• Dealership Inspected vehicle, still had injector DTCs setting. Metal in oil RIP.  Dealer wrote a "replace engine" ticket under warranty. (Mid May) At this point I was NOT aware of this at all.
• Porsche sent field service engineer to further investigate, determined there is bore scoring, and some sort of foreign object damage that has damaged the cylinder head seats (Mid May)
• Service advisor calls and says it needs a new engine, Porsche is denying the warranty coverage (Late May)
• Service advisor is not returning calls or emails, I reach out to Porsche of America and start working with a customer care rep. (Early June)
• Porsche Rep also cannot reach service advisor.
• Porsche Rep finally reaches the dealership, turns out the original service advisor is no longer with the company, and a new service advisor is assigned now (Early June)
• New SA states they can replace with new engine for $25-30k, theyre looking into used engines (Early June)
• Porsche rep states "I was informed by Porsche X that this warranty extension is strictly related to components that have a direct correlation to things like fuel-to-air ratios / other EPA-effecting factors.... something like an entire engine assembly would not be covered."  Also, apparently the dealership has direct say in any warranty coverage, this contradicts what the dealer is telling me about the Field Service Engineer making the call by Porsche. "Porsche dealerships are independent businesses and conduct day-to-day business as they see fit. To that end, yes, the decision is ultimately up to a dealership’s individual assessment."
• Not a word on used engine options, at this point I ask to escalate Porsche customer care to next level (Late June)
• Finally hear back on used engine options, $13k for one used engine $17k for a nicer used engine, pass (Early July)
• New Porsche Customer Care advisor investigates further and also has trouble reaching the dealership and the new service advisor.  Eventually he does, and states that there is nothing Porsche can do, as its up to the individual dealership to make a decision on warranty coverage.  He states they can support some financial assistance but only if the dealership makes some sort of goodwill gesture as well (Mid July)
• I give up and buy a new Subaru Outback (Now)

Here is the exact emissions warranty statement:

I've never heard of that, the warranty is through Porsche and they have the final say.  If they agree to cover the costs of the engine, they pay for it and the dealer does it.  I wonder if the dealer just doesn't want to do such a large job at warranty rates?  Even so, I'd hope that would make Porsche start to threaten to pull their car allocations....

docwyte said:

I've never heard of that, the warranty is through Porsche and they have the final say.  If they agree to cover the costs of the engine, they pay for it and the dealer does it.  I wonder if the dealer just doesn't want to do such a large job at warranty rates?  Even so, I'd hope that would make Porsche start to threaten to pull their car allocations....

I'm really not sure who denied the claim, since I get both stories depending who (and when) I ask.  

This is definitely not the first time I've had an issue with the warranty being honored, and I've worked with 4 different dealership on 3 (now 4) issues. It seems to me that dealers are allowed to make their own judgement on coverage, or at least whether they'll even take on the job and submit documents to Porsche. One dealership did the work and then refused to send in the request to Porsche.

• Porsche rep states "I was informed by Porsche X that this warranty extension is strictly related to components that have a direct correlation to things like fuel-to-air ratios / other EPA-effecting factors.... something like an entire engine assembly would not be covered."  Also, apparently the dealership has direct say in any warranty coverage, this contradicts what the dealer is telling me about the Field Service Engineer making the call by Porsche. "Porsche dealerships are independent businesses and conduct day-to-day business as they see fit. To that end, yes, the decision is ultimately up to a dealership’s individual assessment."
   

that sounds like bullE36 M3 to me. 

In reply to engiekev :

Man, you've got some crappy dealers near you.  One of the reasons I bought a Cayenne vs a Touareg is my Porsche dealer is excellent and I'm friends with my service writer.  I go to the track with the service manager at the other Porsche dealer in town too....

Check your PMs.  Sorry to hear to your troubles. 

Crazy response! Though I've heard of similar with Audi and Porsche dealers when trying to have warranty replacements done on the Q7 and Cayenne. I wonder if you couldn't go to a VW dealer and have the work done?

Parker with too many Projects said:

Crazy response! Though I've heard of similar with Audi and Porsche dealers when trying to have warranty replacements done on the Q7 and Cayenne. I wonder if you couldn't go to a VW dealer and have the work done?

This would have to be done at Porsche, the engines do differ slightly enough, and the warranty are independent from each manufacturer. 

Thanks for the comments, helps me realize I'm not just being a ridiculous customer!  I may just cut my losses and have an Indy shop do a swap with a used complete engine (that's all the Porsche dealer offered anyway with reasonable price). 

Yes that statement is fishy, that's not paraphrasing, it's a direct quote.

I'm not kidding, I did just give up and buy a new Subaru outback wilderness! They seem to be a pretty perfect vehicle for Michigan soft roading, camping, and rally volunteering stuff. I really wish we could hang onto this as it's a fantastic vehicle but after this experience even it was fixed, I don't think I could keep it.

Have you talked with the GM of the dealer?

docwyte said:

Have you talked with the GM of the dealer?

Good call, not yet, will give them a ring Monday morning.