New site in Clio? Very curious to hear more about it.
I would love to be there but NEOhio is holding an event at a new site that weekend so I gots to be there.
New site in Clio? Very curious to hear more about it.
I would love to be there but NEOhio is holding an event at a new site that weekend so I gots to be there.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:New site in Clio? Very curious to hear more about it.
I would love to be there but NEOhio is holding an event at a new site that weekend so I gots to be there.
It is a massive 40 acre field, right next to auto city speedway. Mostly grass with dirt but its hard pack clay, doesnt seem to degrade much at all. There will be future events there, so make sure to make the trip up sometime.
I have driven there at Paul's SuperRallyCross series in the late 00s. Thought I recognized the city
Pete. (l33t FS) said:I have driven there at Paul's SuperRallyCross series in the late 00s. Thought I recognized the city
Now that is way before my time! Didnt that event run mixed surface? Next time I see Paul I'll tell him you said hi.
In reply to engiekev :
IIRC the dirt section was around the top of the image you posted. We would start and finish in the X and it was a huge load of fun. Also, my first experience on Hoosier autocross gumballs, on Jon's 924S.
My first event with the handbrake, was still learning handbrake skill. Tires were 225/50-15 BFG SC2
Sadly, I missed the event, needed time to prep for LSPR. Long story short, our brand new outback wilderness CVT failed at 800 miles and we didn't have a vehicle that can tow our teardrop camper. Enter the Montero, it has a hitch but it is 50% apart for finishing the vinyl wrap, hence our weekend is filled with rushing to finish that.
Here's a video from a fellow miata competitor, he's running a spec miata with revalved bilsteins and MRF gravel tires, and does quite well. He is my bogey.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYxya_hDjAU
Other progress has been made on the suspension, I ordered parts to make the konis into coilovers. I decided to try 10" springs 400F/300R at first, cheap enough to experiment. New bump stops, bushings ,etc.
AllStar sleeves do not fit Koni struts, at least Miata ones, so this necessitates fabricating some spacers for the circlip mount and top to keep sleeve aligned. They are 3D printing now, then they will get sent to my coworker to lathe or mill up. Green part is circlip adapter, red part is a centering sleeve. This is for the rear, I need to pull the fronts and design the same. Yes, I could cut the sleeves REALLY short to work with the OEM Koni circlip but with 10" springs that would be pushing it and why not have more adjustability?
Bump stop length, what is the hive's preference? Short and stiff bump stops or longer and softer? I suppose that really depends on the ride height, spring rate, damping, etc.
I have a set of FCM 46mm "yellow" bump stops that are on the koni's already, and I bought a set of 5xracing 36mm "dual purpose" kit (black hard for front, blue medium for rear). I am leaning towards trying the longer ones at first.
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/bumpstops-rallycross-and-me/124296/page1/
Also printed the upper sleeve sleeve (Sleeve^2), appears to fit nicely and will keep sleeve centered on the shock. Lower part fits as well, need to do the same for the front shocks then its off for machining.
engiekev said:Hopman you should drive it and report back! It fits the "Pete Metric". More subjective info is good too.
Sorry I lost track of this thread.
based on my experience on a very rough hard pack surface, the near-Spec Miata suspension package was gawd-awful terrible. It was incredibly rough and there was almost no travel. It was terrible, and I hated it.
I think if I continue with a Miata for RX I'll just stick with stock suspension.
Personally I'd be looking for Miata R springs, and new top hats to allow max travel! I'd talk to the crew at Paco or Keith. I'd want really long and soft bump stops too. Lowering is not your friend in rallycross, compliance and max travel are! The key is to have the suspension work and never go solid upsetting the car.
Lowering depends on the site. Paul used to rallycross a Subaru seemingly slammed to the ground and did rather well with it. But that was horse track and dirt oval sites where the go-to tire should be Hoosier A6s
+1 on longer/softer stops. They need to work as auxiliary springs, not a crash pad, no matter what. IIRC Miatas rode on them at ride height by design.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:Lowering depends on the site. Paul used to rallycross a Subaru seemingly slammed to the ground and did rather well with it. But that was horse track and dirt oval sites where the go-to tire should be Hoosier A6s
+1 on longer/softer stops. They need to work as auxiliary springs, not a crash pad, no matter what. IIRC Miatas rode on them at ride height by design.
And up to personal preference it seems! Ask around enough and you'll get answers of both, one member here suggested lowering and adding smooth transition skid plates to just ride the ruts out. I think that might not work so well at Milan based on how the lowered NA did there!
Dragging my feet on suspension work again, hopefully I'll get around to finishing this in the winter.
The paco rallycross full kit almost looks too tall of trim height and overkill for rallycross, though the added travel would be nice. I've definitely thought of getting some of the FM upper hats, I'll try this setup first to see how it feels.
For most rallycross I think stock height or slightly higher, with good spring rates and bump stops is the way to go. Don't really want to be lower for ground clearance, but going higher tends to ruin suspension geometry unless you do a bunch of other work along with it. Plus the higher center of gravity isn't helping. You need enough ground clearance to not be constantly bottoming out, but other than that having good wheel control is the most important. Extra travel and tons of ground clearance aren't really necessary until the car starts becoming airborne, which *usually* isn't a part of rallycross.
HopmanJones said:engiekev said:Hopman you should drive it and report back! It fits the "Pete Metric". More subjective info is good too.
Sorry I lost track of this thread.
based on my experience on a very rough hard pack surface, the near-Spec Miata suspension package was gawd-awful terrible. It was incredibly rough and there was almost no travel. It was terrible, and I hated it.
I think if I continue with a Miata for RX I'll just stick with stock suspension.
I've heard the same from the local who runs SM suspension, way too stiff for spring rates and damping. What tires were you running? Having a squishy sidewall does help soften impacts a bit initially but won't help fix incorrect damping; tires act more like a spring than a damper (it's a big air spring if you think about it). Not a lot of data out there on tire spring rates but it sure would be interesting to see how various winter tires compare to summers.
Cool article about NASCAR and how they sort tires based on tire spring rate for tuning:
https://www.frontstretch.com/2018/08/10/tech-talk-tire-spring-rates-five-minute-clocks-and-engine-temperatures-with-justin-alexander-for-michigan/
This is why I said R springs and hats. They are a bit higher rate and stockish ride height. Top hats are supposed to allow more travel
Lots of updates to unpack here. Summary:
Video of fastest run, with 1 cone. Koni's were set to 1turn from full firm (I believe this really only adjust rebound), appears it could use some more compression damping in some spots but I don't have time to mess with that.
Looks like you're having a blast! Much PO approval!
Did you ever look into Paco Coilovers or the new Flatout GR40 coilovers for your miata rather than going the route you did?
My local course often develops bumps, compacted areas, and ruts formed by high power subarus that I have a hard time with the stock NA8 springs I ultimately chose to run. Due to the ruts, I often have to go off the racing line or scrape the bottom of the car on gravel. Although lifting a rallycross car is never really advised, I suspect another 1"-1.5" of lift would work ok for me in this situation, which I think both coilovers can achieve....plus a claimed design to maximize available travel, which would especially be handy for the rear suspension. Unfortunately, both of those coilovers are now just north of $2000, which is a tough pill to swallow for a car that runs local events 7 times a year.
I'm just not sure how many people actually invest in these coilovers for actual competitive rallycross use.
I sure wanted to get Paco coilovers, but as you said cost stopped me from going that route. More travel would definitely be ideal, there were a few places on that course that it hit full jounce.
As far as what is competitive, I believe several National events (maybe not mod rear?) have been won on OEM Miata suspension so there is that.
that miata sure is hot
engiekev said:I sure wanted to get Paco coilovers, but as you said cost stopped me from going that route. More travel would definitely be ideal, there were a few places on that course that it hit full jounce.
As far as what is competitive, I believe several National events (maybe not mod rear?) have been won on OEM Miata suspension so there is that.
For sure. I have not been to that site yet to know for sure, but I could see how depending on the soil and other variable site conditions, OEM suspension could be perfectly fine. It just seems with my local course, it might not be a great solution. Hard to say...
engiekev said:As far as what is competitive, I believe several National events (maybe not mod rear?) have been won on OEM Miata suspension so there is that.
I won MR nationals on msm springs and bilsteins. John England won it a few times on generic parts store stock replacement shocks.
I'd argue rallyx is more about tire choice than suspension. I think Paco suspension would cause too much body roll on a Miata during hard transitions in rallyx and would scrub speed.
ive never won nationals (4th and 5th) but won division years ago in a MF mk2 gti with bilsteins b8's and stiffer springs from a Jetta. Even ran to the parts store during an even when we blew a strut and used kyb cheap stuff.
It's a lot easier to thrash the car around when you're only worried about replacing a sub $500 suspension vs $1000+....and surprisingly we haven't gone through suspension parts too much.
Tires play a HUGE role for sure, I'm putting similar placement relative to the Detroit MR field in this car as compared to the NA I had with the same tires (eurocross). The extra power from the 1.8 helps and the koni coilovers with stiffer spring rate just make it easier to drive - certainly possible to do on stock suspension but you better have 0 mechanical sympathy!
Sadly I may be parting ways with this car soon, or at the latest in Spring, as my plans for moving up to Stage Rally have accelerated (found a car, more to come on that).
Sorry to derail this thread with my own musings and uncertainty about how to address this issue. I will continue to do research and mull over things i don't understand well. :)
Congrats on advancing to stage rally sooner than expected, that is pretty cool.
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