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Number1Gaza
Number1Gaza GRM+ Memberand Reader
1/19/21 8:18 p.m.

In reply to Bense :

This is super interesting info.  For my build I think a custom transmission is a bit beyond the scope, at least for right now.  I just want to track and autocross without breaking something, either me or the car.  But it's interesting that later model civic tranny gears may be interchangeable.  We should meet up,  since you are so local.

 

I sold my old Accord transmission.  It was slightly before my work promotion when I needed the money a little more than I do now, unfortunately.  Definitely regret that one since my Accord tranny still shifted butter smooth.

Bense
Bense New Reader
1/19/21 10:54 p.m.

Yeah, it was a hell of a project and it's too much for most people. 

I hear what you're saying about it being beyond scope, but at the same time the one guy on the planet that's completely, ridiculously bonkers about these pos transmissions, that has boxes of brand new transmission parts in his bedroom comes into your town every ~90 days. I sell more 3.9 and 3.55 final drives than anything else. 

I should set up a workbench in the back of an old van and drive around playing something equivalent to ice cream truck music. Except it's not ice cream that I sell, it'd be just hopes and dreams in the form of modified Honda transmissions! 

 

One can only dream. 

​​​​

Bense
Bense New Reader
1/19/21 11:32 p.m.
Number1Gaza said:

In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :

Thanks!  Means a lot coming from you, as you are really the primary inspiration for this build.  I still go back and read sections of the Traccord thread quite often.

I feel like this is a really good chance to actually add something to the Accord community and this overall platform.  The 07-08 TL-S was Honda's premier engineering effort with this wheelbase.  I have yet to find on any forum the answers to: 

* whether the subframe will bolt up

* If the wheel well plastic with build in brake cooling ducts will fit the Accord

* Do the 07-08 TL auto trans passenger side axles fit 6 speed Accords and 04-06 TL's

* is the rack and pinion a direct swap and how much of a difference does it make 

* does the power steering cooler bolt up to the Accord

* How much bigger and different is the TL-S exhaust vs regular TL's and v6 Accords, and does it bolt up to the Accord

These are things I'll be figuring out as the TL-S gets dismantled.

 

 

 

Most of the dimensions of OEM replacements for parts such as axles, brake rotors, etc can be found under the parts information provided on the rockauto website. I have used RockAuto to compile tables of very useful stuff. 

https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/acura,2006,tl,3.2l+v6,1432641,drivetrain,cv+axle,2288

 

 

AntiArrhythmic
AntiArrhythmic Reader
1/20/21 8:24 a.m.

Cool build.  I'm a Honda guy local to you.  I have a 6th gen Accord coupe with a TL-S sway bars, wheels, and front springs, front drop forks, custom rear coilover setup with 250lb Eibach springs. (Based my rear suspension setup on the original Traccord build).  Also it has a H23A VTEC swap and custom geared trans from the other SC Honda nerd commenting on this thread.  (Really wish I had bought the 03 CL-S swap he had instead though!)

 

And Bense wasn't talking about 10w30 for engine oil.  That is what he is recommending to run for the trans fluid.  10w30 as trans fluid was Honda OEM spec for many years before they made Honda MTF.  People tend to try Syncromesh when they have some cruchy shifts from worn syncros.  I have run both, didn't notice a difference.   Just don't use gear oil, it melts the plastic bearing cages.  I think I have 2-3 bottles of Penzoil GM syncromesh in the storage shed.  I will take a look next time I'm out there, should be in the next few weeks.  They are yours if you want them.

*Angry 4-cylinder noises

Vigo (Forum Supporter)
Vigo (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
1/20/21 10:27 a.m.

I'm anticipating reading about these transmission combos and then using my newfound knowledge to benchrace a j-swapped Element build around my brain for the next 30 minutes. 

Bense
Bense New Reader
1/20/21 6:47 p.m.
Vigo (Forum Supporter) said:

I'm anticipating reading about these transmission combos and then using my newfound knowledge to benchrace a j-swapped Element build around my brain for the next 30 minutes. 

All you really need to know is that I figured out a way to make Honda's strongest transmission have any kind of gearing that you want, and that I also figured out how to use it with any engine that you want in both FWD or AWD configurations, without needing to use an engine adapter plate. 

 

There are a few exceptions, but most of these have simple workarounds. For example, the 2010-2014 AWD TL transmission will not fit a J32A2. But if you really want to use J32A2 heads with J32 rotating assembly, then use a newer J35Z block. 

Number1Gaza
Number1Gaza GRM+ Memberand Reader
1/21/21 12:17 p.m.

Moving the conversation back to my build, the used Skunk2 upper control arms showed up.  Here is the drivers side one: 

 Looks like they are in decent shape, right?  Wrong.  The ball joint is broken.  Seriously frustrating.  Luckily, replacements are easily sourced and only $50 but now it will be Monday at the earliest that I can install them.  Cue nasty eBay review.  
 

Here's how much camber these gain, compared to the stock arms:


 

I was kind of hoping for more.  There's a modification that is possible with these arms where you turn around the ball joint and grind out some of the material in the ball joint mount so that the ball joint can sit farther back in the arm.  Guys call it the Hellaflush mod.  I think I'm going to do it myself while I'm waiting around for the new ball joint to come in.  Very carefully, since I really don't want to compromise the integrity of the arm - a broken upper control arm at 100mph is not exactly a comforting thought.   

Bense
Bense New Reader
1/21/21 12:25 p.m.

Accord subframe is 69 lbs. 

Number1Gaza
Number1Gaza GRM+ Memberand Reader
1/24/21 3:28 p.m.

In reply to AntiArrhythmic :

Nice, another local Honda guy!  what does a 6th Gen Coupe weigh with an H23 I wonder? I'd think with the upgrades your car is very similar to the original Traccord, just with more top end power.  
 

 

Number1Gaza
Number1Gaza GRM+ Memberand Reader
1/24/21 3:33 p.m.

Today, I bought something I did not need.  Browsing around Fb marketplace, I found the identical SPEC stage 3 full-face clutch and pressure plate that I have installed in my car, for sale like 5 miles up the road from me.  For $50.  Supposedly it has 1500 miles on it, and based on the lack of wear I'd say that is accurate.  
 

Anyway, like I said I already have this exact setup installed, but a spare can't hurt, and I'm sure I could sell it for quite a bit more than I paid.  That's an $600 clutch new.

Bense
Bense New Reader
1/24/21 3:37 p.m.
Number1Gaza said:

In reply to AntiArrhythmic :

Nice, another local Honda guy!  what does a 6th Gen Coupe weigh with an H23 I wonder? I'd think with the upgrades your car is very similar to the original Traccord, just with more top end power.  
 

 

If this is correct about the weight of the crankshaft in the JDM H23A DOHC VTEC, then I would speculate that the weight is going to be very similar to a F23A1, even though it has an extra camshaft + cam pulley. 

I wonder if the FRM cylinder sleeves in the H23A weigh any less? But even if none of that were true, his 11 lb flywheel brings the overall weight to either the same as F23A1 or lighter. 

https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-prelude-4/jdm-h23a-vtec-blue-top-mystery-motor-true-facts-questions-2341343/

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
1/24/21 5:24 p.m.

Those upper arms should give you the camber you need. The good part about double A arms is that 2ish degrees is a LOT because of the better camber curve than strut cars. I have to look back at my numbers but I think I'm at 1.5 and can get very even tire temps on track like that. 

Number1Gaza
Number1Gaza GRM+ Memberand Reader
1/24/21 7:36 p.m.

In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :

Thanks for the advice.  I've seen differing opinions online.    If that's the case on your car then I'll see how they are without modding them.  It's not hard to pull the arms if I decide I need more camber.

Bense
Bense New Reader
1/24/21 7:57 p.m.
Number1Gaza said:

Today, I bought something I did not need.  Browsing around Fb marketplace, I found the identical SPEC stage 3 full-face clutch and pressure plate that I have installed in my car, for sale like 5 miles up the road from me.  For $50.  Supposedly it has 1500 miles on it, and based on the lack of wear I'd say that is accurate.  
 

Anyway, like I said I already have this exact setup installed, but a spare can't hurt, and I'm sure I could sell it for quite a bit more than I paid.  That's an $600 clutch new.

Lucky!

The older (pre 2008) J-series engine/transmission bolt pattern such as the one that you've got on your J32A3 and the original J30A5 that our cars had, there's a relatively simple method of using the Honda OEM 2018 Accord Sport 2.0T clutch/pressure plate. Exedy supplies the parts for Honda and its a very high quality kit for the price. You have to use shims between the flywheel and the pressure plate. The OP of the flywheel thread on AcuraZine makes the shims. They're very, very reasonably priced. If I didn't already have plans to use a newer J-series engine. Either way, I'm very jealous you scored that deal.


Did I read that you actually weighed your car? The specs provided on the Honda website list 3371 lbs. I would love to find out that its less than that though. Also, is your interior tan?!? 

 

 

Number1Gaza
Number1Gaza GRM+ Memberand Reader
1/25/21 6:20 a.m.

In reply to Bense :

Yep, my car has the tan interior, and I have weighed my car.  I have a very accurate truck scale at work.  I've done some weight loss, which I documented earlier in this thread.  I've dropped around 200 lbs from the stock weight.  
2018 Accord Sport clutch / flywheel is intriguing, but maybe more so for someone running the stock Accord/TL setup.  I have an Aasco single mass aluminum flywheel and the SPEC clutch, which for combined daily driveability and performance is pretty much the optimal setup, IMO.

Number1Gaza
Number1Gaza GRM+ Memberand Reader
1/26/21 6:58 p.m.

I ended up buying 2 new ball joints for the upper arms; only 1 was bad but both were used so I figured I'd rather be safe than sorry.  That's one part I don't want failing.
 

I installed both upper arms, without modification.  They are easy to remove if I want more camber later, and per Seth's comment above, I may not need more camber.  We will see, but I took the car for a 15 min test run after installation, and after performing another non-measured eyeball style self alignment to correct the massive toe-in that adding front camber causes.  I moved the tie rods 3 full turns in the toe-out direction, and per my eyeballs that get things about back to even, maybe just a hair toe out.  Crazy how much camber affects toe.
 

Anyway, back to that test drive.  Adding camber makes a truly massive difference. The car feels far more balanced, still understeers a bit but the thing is, I have a limited slip diff.  If the car starts to understeer I can just hammer the gas and the diff pulls the front end around the corner.  Also, the front of the car feels far more stable.  From looking at my old upper arms, the bushings had definitely seen better days, so there are multiple improvements.  And now I can start driving the car more because I'm no longer worried about crazy tire wear.  Self five.  

Bense
Bense New Reader
1/26/21 7:04 p.m.

How many miles are on your Accord?

Number1Gaza
Number1Gaza GRM+ Memberand Reader
1/26/21 7:10 p.m.

In reply to Bense :

~127k on the chassis.  At this point the chassis and interior are about the only things still stock. Motor/tranny mileage is unknown, the guy I bought it from said it was "around 100k" but a carfax on the vin says it's more like 130ish.  At this point I'm not too worried about miles on the block, the first time I have lower engine issues that'll just be an excuse to swap in J35 guts laugh

Bense
Bense New Reader
1/26/21 7:16 p.m.

My accord has almost 300k miles. All the bushings are crap. I can't wait to do the equivalent of what all you've done suspension wise. 

Number1Gaza
Number1Gaza GRM+ Memberand Reader
1/26/21 9:14 p.m.

In reply to Bense :

O wow.  I would agree you need a suspension refresh in all likelihood.  

Number1Gaza
Number1Gaza GRM+ Memberand Reader
1/29/21 11:13 a.m.

Yesterday I watched a bunch of YouTube videos on alignments and then spent about an hour doing a string alignment on my front end.  I aligned both front tires to 3/32" toe out.  I know that's pretty aggressive; is it too aggressive? I really don't know.  Im a complete noob when it comes to alignment specs and really suspension stuff in general.  But the steering wheel is perfectly centered at least and the car doesn't pull.  

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
1/29/21 11:36 a.m.

That's aggressive, so watch your wear. For street/track combo cars that I don't want to adjust I usually try not to exceed 1/4 total. My goal is to land just a hair on the inside of the 1/4 mark. 

Number1Gaza
Number1Gaza GRM+ Memberand Reader
1/29/21 5:37 p.m.

In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :

Good to know; so you normally shoot for just shy of 1/4" total for both sides?  Aka just shy of 1/8" per side?

 

*edit* yes, that's obviously what you were saying, now that I reread the post.  Well that's easy enough as I'm already fairly close.  

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
1/29/21 8:33 p.m.

Yea. It's easier for me to just get the wheel centered and then adjust both sides equal and opposite when I move them, and that point it's easier to just use two levels and two tape measures and deal with total toe. 

For me, over 1/4 total gets a little darty on the road and tire wear will go up a bit. The down side is that you're playing with an amount that can feel pretty dead on center when doing long miles and that can get tiring. Each car is different, but I'm chasing good steering feel on turn in, ok steering day to day, and minimal tire wear. Once you know how to change it, it's not a huge deal to experiment until you find what you like. What's weird is people that drive around for months with a crap alignment without learning how to fix it in their driveway. 

Bense
Bense New Reader
1/30/21 2:25 a.m.

Any particular reason you decided to not use the J35?

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