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ProDarwin UltimaDork
4/6/20 8:10 p.m.

2GR Camry doesn't come with a Manual as far as I am aware.

The previous engines have oil starvation issues.

With the exception of the Maxima I think it would take a ton of work to make any of those cars perform on par with a TL - far more than the difference in price.

poopshovel again
poopshovel again MegaDork
4/6/20 8:13 p.m.
yupididit said:

TL Type S with 6sp manual

If FWD is, for some inexplicable reason, a "must-have," yes; this is the answer.

poopshovel again
poopshovel again MegaDork
4/6/20 8:17 p.m.
gearheadE30 said:
BlueInGreen - Jon (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to gearheadE30 :

I randomly remember reading, maybe it was in Car and Driver, about a tuned DTS built for Tim Allen. I think it was lowered with big brakes and engine work good for 400hp. Seemed like an interesting choice for a tuned performance sedan but it looked the business.

My google-fu is failing me.

Here's the C&D article, though unfortunately they have changed their website format and old articles don't show all the pictures anymore: https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15139707/tim-allen-design-cadillac-deville-dtsi-specialty-file/

The DTSi also makes an appearance in this video around 2:56 in the background, while they are discussing his LT5-powered 1996 Impala SS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYu5vRpsGhg

I'll do more digging tomorrow but the car is a bit of a ghost. Hardly any other info beyond the car and driver article, and this is really the only picture I've found so far.


NINJA EDIT: here's a real video, with some actual go fast footage! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlkcSPYAS6w

And video part 2 which actually has more info on the DTSi if youtube doesn't automatically suggest it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gM26we2KM0


...or you could just buy a V. But to each his weird own, I suppose. I tried to watch that video, but everyone in it made me physically ill.

Jordan Rimpela
Jordan Rimpela GRM+ Memberand Dork
4/6/20 8:18 p.m.

To quote Roxy Music:


shelbyz Reader
4/9/20 9:28 a.m.

My pick would be one of the two made by Honda. 

Buddy of mine bought a slightly abused 225k+ 04 or 05 TL at an auction. Was just going to fix it up and flip it, but liked it enough to keep it as a daily driver for a couple years. I think his only hang up was the premium requirement after he get a job where he had to drive a lot more. I drove it home on a road trip and it was surprisingly solid. Based on the condition of the interior and how well it drove, you'd never know how many miles were on it.

My experience with some of the others on the list:

-My Dad has a (2008 I think?) AWD MKZ. It's a nice car and he's generally satisfied with it. However, he's somewhat paranoid about the 3.5's internal water pump that is notorious for leaking coolant into the oil when it goes. He's also been lamenting and putting off the replacement of some sensor relating to the HVAC system. Apparently it's because while the sensor is inexpensive, replacing it requires total removal of the dash. I think he said cost of replacement at the dealer is well into the 4 digits.

-The Saab 9-3's are great cars to drive, just suffer from a ton of electrical gremlins. I think everyone I knew that owned one went through some kind of electric issues from one with multiple radios going out, to door lock and power window issues. An ex-GF of mine was shopping for a used one with a manual a few years ago. We ended up at a Saab dealer that had two on their used lot, and both had some sort of electrical gremlin.

-I had an 07/08 Sebring as a loaner from a Chrysler dealer when I took a non-Chrysler I just bought from their used lot in under warranty. Holy moly was it awful. The interior was terrible, and consider that was coming from a guy that just bought used a Ion Redline... I would imagine the 2011 refresh improved things a bit, but I'd still never consider the Avenger/Sebring/200. They're based on the same platform as the Caliber/Compass/Patriot. My GF has a Patriot and aside from being overall horrible, it goes through suspension parts like consumables.

Vigo MegaDork
4/12/20 12:23 a.m.

I've driven a fair amount of the list. 

My personal picks for FWD would be the TL Type S or the Altima SE-R.  If i could find perfect condition i'd probably take the Altima first, but realistically you're WAY more likely to find a really nice TL at this point in time. 

What i actually have, is a Mazdaspeed6. 


Mr_Clutch42 SuperDork
4/12/20 4:16 p.m.

I've only driven a few of these sedans on the list, and of the ones I've driven, I would definitely go with the Mazda 6 5MT. I haven't driven the TL type S or the 2nd gen Mazda 6 yet.

G_Body_Man UltraDork
4/12/20 5:34 p.m.

Handling? TL Type-S 6MT all day if it has to be FWD.

MotorsportsGordon HalfDork
4/12/20 9:03 p.m.

My dad had a blue 2000 deville just a deville not a Dhs or dts but still a very nice car. It was a rare car as it actually had a cloth interior in it. But the north star is a sweet sounding engine goes from traditional  cadillac quiet to 6000 plus rpm when you gas it.

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