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Petrolburner
Petrolburner Dork
5/14/19 3:37 p.m.

I'm going to go against the majority here and say that I really like it.  I think it looks great and the interior looks like a great place to be.  The pricing seems good and if future models bring a manual transmission so much the better.  However, watching the Smoking Tire's review, transmission sounds like it works really well.  Thank you Toyota for making a car for the enthusiast.  

MichaelYount
MichaelYount HalfDork
5/14/19 4:37 p.m.
Hopsonn said:

This car looks like Chris Bangle and Fuore Design got together to design a sports car. It is not good.

Pretty sure that both Honda and Toyota have 'designers', and I use the term loosely, that are aiming anything with remotely sporting aspirations squarely at a millennial market that seems to have the attention span of an un-attached electron.  A non-stop hodge-podge of scoops, scallops, slots and intersecting humps filled with black plastic bits that, taken as a whole, scream "Hey!  Look at me, look at me!"  I keep waiting for one of them (e.g. Honda Civic S-type, this new so-called Supra) to rear up at a stop light and turn into Mr. Roboto.

Yes, I'm old and not the target demographic.  They're still too busy to be anywhere close to attractive.

Nick Comstock
Nick Comstock MegaDork
5/14/19 7:31 p.m.

Instead of going through the myriad of things I don't particularly like I would like to call out the one thing that I really love about the styling. 

That little duck tail rear spoiler is outstanding. 

Grizz
Grizz UberDork
5/14/19 8:32 p.m.

I'll say it.

It's the perfect successor to the mk4. Blobby and ugly and most of them will sit around not getting driven for various reasons.

Mk2/3 is way better looking, fight me.

First and biggest mistake Toyota made was using the supra name for them sweet nostalgia bux. Nobody would have given two E36 M3s about its BMWness if they tossed some random name on it and sold it as a upmarket alternative to the twins. In fact, you likely would have had some of the same people complaining about it asking why they didn't call it the supra.

Basically what I'm saying is full red interiors of crushed velour needs to come back.

Vigo
Vigo UltimaDork
5/14/19 8:59 p.m.

In reply to Grizz :

I love that entire post. 

te72
te72 Reader
5/15/19 12:31 a.m.
Nick Comstock said:

Instead of going through the myriad of things I don't particularly like I would like to call out the one thing that I really love about the styling. 

That little duck tail rear spoiler is outstanding. 

If you follow the outside of the tail light curve, over the top of the duck tail, to the other tail light curve... it does a reasonable job simulating the wing of the Mk4... I just noticed that yesterday, and I like it. Some angles, yes. Others, quite... odd. That said, it's a modern car and it isn't completely a head scratcher in the looks department, so... progress?

te72
te72 Reader
5/15/19 12:37 a.m.
Grizz said:

I'll say it.

It's the perfect successor to the mk4. Blobby and ugly and most of them will sit around not getting driven for various reasons.

Mk2/3 is way better looking, fight me.

Basically what I'm saying is full red interiors of crushed velour needs to come back.

You know, I like your style Grizz. We have two Supras in our garage, my wife's Mk4 and my Mk3. I catch myself looking at both of them in rather inappropriate ways frequently. I've had them all over the years, and like them all for a variety of reasons.

 

However, you're absolutely wrong about the burgundy interiors. Look pretty good when new, but unless garaged or kept covered and out of sunlight, they age horribly. Blue was a much better choice. *ties on the gloves*  =P

te72
te72 Reader
5/15/19 12:50 a.m.

Ok, I've read through this whole thread now, and I can see a lot of your points. Mine is a simple one:

 

I'd love to drive a Mk5 Supra, but I wouldn't want to own one.

 

...brand new. Yeah, I'm one of "those guys" who only buys used cars. Not that I can't afford new, but a used R8 (or Viper, or Ferrari 360, or GT350, or... you get the point) makes a hell of an argument compared to a Mk5 Supra, and I'm more than likely the biggest Supra guy on this forum, if I had to take a stab at it, much as I dislike pissing contests. The chassis sounds (and appears to handle) brilliantly, so I'm all sorts of excited to see what these things are like, and if I can keep up in my car. They will likely make some fantastic cars to tinker with, assuming that it isn't a total and complete PITA to modify.

 

Oh yeah, modifying... that brings me to my main point. Modern BMW's... best left stock, or mildly modified. Supras, on the other hand... we tend to go a bit off the rails when it comes to "let's see how far we can push this thing." and surprisingly, those old Supras are SOLID. I really hope I'm wrong, but I sincerely doubt you are going to see many 500-600whp Mk5 Supras survive for terribly long, and it all comes down to the bottom line here, which is...

 

...the bottom end. BMW is notoriously good at engineering bearings to withstand incredible loads, far beyond what any sane person would ever throw at an engine. Oh wait... no, I've got that backwards. They have a rather amusing history of terrible bearing design. Let me know how that's gonna hold up once Supra guys and gals start their tinkering madness. These B58's are gonna have more rod knock issues than all the post-bhg fix 7m threads I've seen over the years. =(

rezisehtnys
rezisehtnys New Reader
5/15/19 2:10 a.m.

I'm just happy to see Toyota attempting to make sporty cars again.  I will say I lament the lack of having a manual as an option, I've tried the ZF 8-speed and ridden in one plenty of times and no matter how good it may or may not be it's still very much an automatic and I'd never own one or hardly consider it a suitable manual replacement.  Of course I'm the type that doesn't care if the automatic/automated manual is faster, it's not the same as doing it yourself.  I'm a strong independent woman and I don't need any self shifting transmission. laugh  In all seriousness though I hope it does well, and in today's market it probably will as only oddballs like me insist on a manual.  Hey maybe they'll pair up with Lotus to import the Elise as the new MR2 after Toyota does what's needed to get it through U.S. crash safety, one can hope anyway right?

I think if you want a new(ish) Supra with a manual just do what my brother did, buy an E92 with the N54 and call it real. wink

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
5/15/19 8:00 a.m.
te72 said:

Ok, I've read through this whole thread now, and I can see a lot of your points. Mine is a simple one:

 

I'd love to drive a Mk5 Supra, but I wouldn't want to own one.

 

...brand new. Yeah, I'm one of "those guys" who only buys used cars. Not that I can't afford new, but a used R8 (or Viper, or Ferrari 360, or GT350, or... you get the point) makes a hell of an argument compared to a Mk5 Supra, and I'm more than likely the biggest Supra guy on this forum, if I had to take a stab at it, much as I dislike pissing contests. The chassis sounds (and appears to handle) brilliantly, so I'm all sorts of excited to see what these things are like, and if I can keep up in my car. They will likely make some fantastic cars to tinker with, assuming that it isn't a total and complete PITA to modify.

 

Oh yeah, modifying... that brings me to my main point. Modern BMW's... best left stock, or mildly modified. Supras, on the other hand... we tend to go a bit off the rails when it comes to "let's see how far we can push this thing." and surprisingly, those old Supras are SOLID. I really hope I'm wrong, but I sincerely doubt you are going to see many 500-600whp Mk5 Supras survive for terribly long, and it all comes down to the bottom line here, which is...

 

...the bottom end. BMW is notoriously good at engineering bearings to withstand incredible loads, far beyond what any sane person would ever throw at an engine. Oh wait... no, I've got that backwards. They have a rather amusing history of terrible bearing design. Let me know how that's gonna hold up once Supra guys and gals start their tinkering madness. These B58's are gonna have more rod knock issues than all the post-bhg fix 7m threads I've seen over the years. =(

That was really only the S54/S65/S85 cars that had bearing issues and many have shown it was mainly down to abusing the engine before it was up to temp. And remember the S54 still shared the bore spacing as the old M20 engine.........hence using an S54 crank allows you to build a 3.1L M20 stroker.

The N54/N55 cars aren't having rod bearing issues. Both engines are easily making well north of 450whp on the stock bottom end. And the B58 is an evolution of the N55. 

I suspect a tune is going to put the car into the 3 sec 0-60 range........so unless you're a drag racer or do "pulls on the highway bro" how much more do you really need?

 

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
5/15/19 8:36 a.m.

Car and Driver just put instrumented numbers down: 3.8 secs 0-60 and 12.3 secs in the 1/4.

bcp2011
bcp2011 Reader
5/15/19 8:46 a.m.

In reply to z31maniac :

There's a can of worms... What we "need" and what we want are often times divergent.  There's a thread a few links down about a fast moving "shed" for north of $150k.

I get your point, which is why I drive a lowly 2L, but most of the new cars on the road today have more than what 99% of drivers "need" and indeed are probably hazardous to safety.  

BlueInGreen - Jon
BlueInGreen - Jon SuperDork
5/15/19 9:33 a.m.

I think I like the styling. My wife says it’s cool so it can’t be too bad.

As nice as it would have been to see a new Supra designed from the ground up by Toyota I’m going to guess that using the BMW was the only way this car was ever going to exist. In my opinion, the Supra name fits and I think the car does fill a nice slot in the market.

BigD
BigD Reader
5/15/19 10:06 a.m.
te72 said:

Oh yeah, modifying... that brings me to my main point. Modern BMW's... best left stock, or mildly modified. Supras, on the other hand... we tend to go a bit off the rails when it comes to "let's see how far we can push this thing." and surprisingly, those old Supras are SOLID. I really hope I'm wrong, but I sincerely doubt you are going to see many 500-600whp Mk5 Supras survive for terribly long, and it all comes down to the bottom line here, which is...

 

...the bottom end. BMW is notoriously good at engineering bearings to withstand incredible loads, far beyond what any sane person would ever throw at an engine. Oh wait... no, I've got that backwards. They have a rather amusing history of terrible bearing design. Let me know how that's gonna hold up once Supra guys and gals start their tinkering madness. These B58's are gonna have more rod knock issues than all the post-bhg fix 7m threads I've seen over the years. =(

Someone I know who was at the launch said that Toyota apparently ran the B58 to Toyota durability standards to 700hp, so it seems no worries there. With regards to bearings, this is also a misleading statement. It's only true for their high-revving NA S motors because they are really racing engines, not meant for longevity. They have really short decks and small bearings, which is great if you need a light engine that lasts a few races or maybe a season but it's not for a street car. I haven't looked at the specs for the B58 but the S55 shows that they're learning, these new turbo 6es are for real, with deck heights, journal diameters and rod ratios much more favorable for longevity and big jam.

turtl631
turtl631 HalfDork
5/15/19 11:25 a.m.

Yea, b58 and s55 have some differences, but stock s55s (m3/4 engine) get to 500 wheel horsepower plus with just a tune and breathing mods. With bigger aftermarket turbos I think the stock blocks do up to around 650 or so.  Not many pushing it beyond that, remember these are 60 to $80,000 cars that have only been around since 2015 so the pool of people willing to build a block and do a big turbo setup is fairly small.  Especially when you can get around 500whp with just a flash tune and a few cheap breathing mods.  Diminishing returns and all that...

BigD
BigD Reader
5/15/19 11:35 a.m.
turtl631 said:

Yea, b58 and s55 have some differences, but stock s55s (m3/4 engine) get to 500 wheel horsepower plus with just a tune and breathing mods. With bigger aftermarket turbos I think the stock blocks do up to around 650 or so.  Not many pushing it beyond that, remember these are 60 to $80,000 cars that have only been around since 2015 so the pool of people willing to build a block and do a big turbo setup is fairly small.  Especially when you can get around 500whp with just a flash tune and a few cheap breathing mods.  Diminishing returns and all that...

There are plenty of N54/N55s over 750whp, I think the highest I've seen recorded on E85 on an unopened longblock is about 840 wheel. I'm not sure if the S55 has been around long enough to be pushed that far yet but no reason why it can't. From what I hear about the differences of the B58 to the S55, it should handle even more. Again, when Toyota [allegedly] says that they had the motor tested to 700 flywheel reliably, that's pretty cool!

Snrub
Snrub HalfDork
5/15/19 11:41 a.m.

^ Sounds terrible, why would anyone want to buy this car? ;)

tjbell
tjbell HalfDork
5/15/19 12:00 p.m.

I mean its cool they returned the Supra, but this does it no justice.  I'd take one, if it was free, and had a warranty.

dculberson
dculberson UltimaDork
5/15/19 12:39 p.m.

0-60 in 3.8 seconds is insane. I also don't understand how they get that performance out of 335hp, that's crazy good.

rezisehtnys
rezisehtnys New Reader
5/15/19 1:27 p.m.

The N54 is the German 2JZ for a reason, my brother's 335i is already at 500 hp just with bolt-ons and a tune.  Just some turbos away from 700-800 hp.  Apparently the N54 anyway is good for it on stock internals, so hardly anything to sneeze at.  So if the latest iterations of the BMW I6 aren't too watered down in strength(I know the N55 is supposed to be a bit weaker than the N54) then I can't think of a better engine out there currently for something that's to be a Supra. 

Also I can't fathom it being too difficult to do a manual conversion on the Supra, since all of the hard stuff with manual conversions is already there in factory parts off current or relatively current BMW models.  Maybe some of the first buyers will do just that.  Also in terms of styling I kind of like it.  I think it'll be like the ND Miata, people will warm up to it over time.

CyberEric
CyberEric HalfDork
5/15/19 6:31 p.m.

I was very ready to hate on this car for obvious reasons, but the reviews so far have been changing my tune.

The numbers are staggering. 1.09 g on Michelin super sports? That’s insane.

Acceleration? 3.8 to 60 in a 3300lb car. There’s NO way that engine is putting out 335 hp.

And the subjective measures have been good too. It’s ugly, but it sounds legit.

yupididit
yupididit GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
5/15/19 7:56 p.m.
z31maniac said:

Car and Driver just put instrumented numbers down: 3.8 secs 0-60 and 12.3 secs in the 1/4.

 

Damn......hmmm that's pretty insane given the numbers. Performance without excess. 

CyberEric
CyberEric HalfDork
5/15/19 7:58 p.m.

In reply to yupididit :

The numbers are similar to a GT350, both in acceleration and in corner grip. I know this is magazine racing, but that's really, really impressive.

Snrub
Snrub HalfDork
5/15/19 8:37 p.m.

Is it possible the Supra and the Z4 have the same underrated power, but BMW asked Toyota to list a lower number to justify a the price difference?

The grip numbers are particularly impressive given the description of the ride quality.

Cotton
Cotton PowerDork
5/15/19 8:43 p.m.

Just checked out the colors on the website.  I really like the blue!

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