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madmrak351 New Reader
10/19/21 12:39 p.m.

Math is quantitative. English is irritative. If I understand what you meant you have succeeded in communication. Isn’t that the purpose of language.

Aspen HalfDork
10/19/21 12:54 p.m.

In reply to dculberson :

If you think of them as 200 units of horsepower then fewer fits better.  IMHO 

When we talk of the non distinct power then less is better.

einy (Forum Supporter)
einy (Forum Supporter) Dork
10/19/21 1:23 p.m.

Will be interested to see one in person, as well as the new Integra.  I have some time on my hands to wait until then before making my next purchase decision, which is nice.  

trucke SuperDork
10/19/21 1:31 p.m.

Since the demise of my daily Focus sedan, I'm in the market for a replacement.  This could fit the bill.  Looks like a good mix for a great daily driver.  I really like the Blazing Orange Pearl color.  That would make it easy to find in a crowded parking lot.  The mechanical LSD is a great selling point for me too!

When it comes time to play, there is a 2019 CTR in the garage!

Tony Sestito
Tony Sestito PowerDork
10/19/21 2:39 p.m.

My thoughts from what I'm seeing so far:

-Looks great! The new Civic looks fantastic in person, and the Si looks drastically better on my computer screen than both the regular Civic and the outgoing Si. Less weirdness, and it looks more mature, even in that orange paint. I do wish they offered the hatch in Si form, but the Integra seems to be filling that void.

-The interior looks fantastic. Again, I liked it in the regular Civic, and this one turns the wick up a bit.

-I'm seeing a lot of people on the interwebs freaking out about the new Si. Most people are grabbing the pitchforks and torches over the loss of 5hp. I can nearly guarantee that those people (or much anyone else) could feel a difference. The Si isn't supposed to be a barn-burner; it's a hotter flavor commuter car for people that like to drive. 200hp in the age of 300+hp Camrys doesn't seem much, but I'm sure it's going to be fun to drive.

Honda seems to be sticking to the regular Si formula, and I commend them for that. I'm just glad the Honda Civic Si still exists with a performance-oriented 4-cylinder and a real manual transmission.

dculberson MegaDork
10/19/21 2:45 p.m.
Aspen said:

In reply to dculberson :

If you think of them as 200 units of horsepower then fewer fits better.  IMHO 

When we talk of the non distinct power then less is better.

Well, see that's the thing. "Fewer than 200 units of horsepower" makes sense, but that's because "units" is plural. Remove the "units of" and it becomes "less than 200 horsepower." "Horsepower" in this sentence is singular. Using fewer there would be like saying "Fewer than one apple," which doesn't work. "Less than one apple," would be the right way to say it.

I hope nobody's upset by this, I legitimately think it's an interesting conversation. Which may be strange to some people, but I never claimed to be anything else.

GCrites80s HalfDork
10/19/21 3:21 p.m.

How about "less torques"?

Region_Rat New Reader
10/19/21 3:31 p.m.

In reply to trucke :

Came from a similar situation and in an Elantra N-line now, give it a test drive before you make the decision.  As a daily I love it.

madmrak351 New Reader
10/19/21 4:10 p.m.

In reply to dculberson :

Sorry: I am obviously having a grumpy old man day. Please excuse me.

Mr. Peabody
Mr. Peabody UltimaDork
10/19/21 5:22 p.m.
madmrak351 said:

Isn’t that the purpose of language.

It sounds like a question, but the punctuation indicates otherwise.  What are you trying to say?

Oh, and the word less in the title should be capitalized .



dj06482 (Forum Supporter)
dj06482 (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
10/19/21 5:34 p.m.

I'm not overly concerned about the loss of a few horsepower. Even the Almighty Mustang is losing a few ponies in the next model year due to emissions changes.

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
10/19/21 5:43 p.m.
dculberson said:
Duke said:

You are correct, 200 is less than 205.  But since "horsepower" is an incremental unit that is counted to quantify a specific amount, the correct word is fewer.

If you have a recipe for soup that calls for 8 cups of water and you only put in 6, you put in less water, but you put in fewer cups of water.

Here endeth the lesson.


See my post above. You say "cups of water" - plural - so it's fewer, but you say "horsepower" - note singular - so you use less.

I love this forum.

We've completely missed that Honda is claiming that a bloated Accord is the most fun Civic Si yet, and we're having an existential discussion on the intricacies of the wonderfully malformed language that is English.


FWIW - Less.  Horsepower is a concept.

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
10/19/21 5:44 p.m.
dj06482 (Forum Supporter) said:

I'm not overly concerned about the loss of a few horsepower. 

"Fewination". cheeky

Mr. Peabody
Mr. Peabody UltimaDork
10/19/21 5:46 p.m.

We’ve not missed it, it’s the reason we’re talking about something other than the car. It’s infinitely more interesting.  

madmrak351 New Reader
10/19/21 6:39 p.m.

In reply to Mr. Peabody :Got me, lol. So if a rhetorical question is not really a question is it a statement?  That’s too deep for me!

dculberson MegaDork
10/19/21 8:24 p.m.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:
dj06482 (Forum Supporter) said:

I'm not overly concerned about the loss of a few horsepower. 

"Fewination". cheeky

Gonedownication, don't be silly.

irish44j (Forum Supporter)
irish44j (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
10/19/21 8:48 p.m.

I actually think it looks fantastic. Finally a Civic Si that a 45-year-old like me can drive and not feel a bit silly like I'm having a midlife crisis.

That said, 1.5T with 200hp doesn't excite me. At all. The 2.0T in my GTI is unexciting enough. Losing a few HP isn't a big deal, except for the fact that it started with too few in the first place vs. almost any of the competition. LSD would be a good sell....if the GTI didn't have one too. 

The Civic R drivetrain in this "adult" body....THAT would get me excited to trade in my GTI. 

CyberEric Dork
10/19/21 9:22 p.m.

The positive for me: the looks and that they kept the weight down. I'm amazed about the weight when I consider this thing is probably the size of a 2002 Accord. Real diff and MT.

The negative: the 1.5 turbo issues.

itsarebuild Dork
10/19/21 9:41 p.m.

I'm going to admit I am interested. I have adult friends and colleagues so 4 doors are good. A hatch is a good way to loose my laptop or tools to thieves. And the thought of getting these needs filled with a reasonably quick car with manual trans and LSD makes me happy. 

I may still wait for an electric version to satisfy my needs but this may extend that change a few years.

Kreb (Forum Supporter)
Kreb (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
10/19/21 9:46 p.m.

Far better looking both inside and out. But yeah, 200 HP in this day and time doesn't cause much commotion. They're kinda going the Mazda direction: great styling and dynamics, but meh power. 

Datsun310Guy MegaDork
10/19/21 9:51 p.m.
Kreb (Forum Supporter) said:

They're kinda going the Mazda direction: great styling and dynamics, but meh power. 

Along with the 188hp turbo Nismo Sentra that quietly died......

calteg Dork
10/20/21 8:15 a.m.

Put me in the "I like it" camp. I'm a sucker for orange, and that interior is gorgeous. Let's be honest, no one on this board will notice a 5hp difference, especially when every minivan makes 100hp more than a civic SI. 


My only concern is price. It does seem like they'll struggle to keep this one under $30k

CyberEric Dork
10/20/21 10:13 a.m.

The regular civic is already nearly 30k in some trims, so yeah, I think it's unlikely th Si will be.

gearheadE30 Dork
10/20/21 10:18 a.m.

I really like the back end and the interior, lots of Audi and Mazda cues there. The front does absolutely nothing for me though. It just looks like a droopy amalgam of all the other sedans on the road.

Seems like if it didn't have an Si badge, we would all say it seemed like a great little car, but it doesn't seem to meet the expectations (hopes?) that come with that badge.

MadScientistMatt UltimaDork
10/20/21 10:24 a.m.

If you want to be really nitpicky:

At any rate, Honda also notes that the Civic gets the same rev-matching system used in the Civic Type R, capable of a “430 m/s response time.”

430 meters per second is 961 miles per hour. Exactly what in the rev-matching system is moving at supersonic speeds?

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