Will a D16Z6 hold up to enough boost to make 300hp reliably or do I need to do a B series swap? If I did a B-series swap, is it worth getting a VTEC motor over a non-VTEC one if I am throwing boost at it?
Edit: It looks like D-series would need pistons, rods and ARP studs to get 300hp.
Edit 2: it is for SMF autocross and street driving.
yea, it will likley do 240-250hp just fine but above that needs $$$.
In reply to 93EXCivic :
LS4 Swap.
OVer 300hp stock
You got it in your edit, but if you keep an eye out you see built engine civics going for much less than the sum of their parts. Also people with big dreams abandon those kinds of parts pretty frequently. Facebook market is a good place to keep your eyes to build a mean single cam.
Mic drop.
accordionfolder said:You got it in your edit, but if you keep an eye out you see built engine civics going for much less than the sum of their parts. Also people with big dreams abandon those kinds of parts pretty frequently. Facebook market is a good place to keep your eyes to build a mean single cam.
That is good idea. Would you go with a D-series build or just getting a B20 from Japan and boost it?
That is really where I am trying to decide which one makes more sense.
Indy- "Nub" Guy said:In reply to 93EXCivic :
LS4 Swap.
OVer 300hp stock
Not street mod legal even if I had any interest in a LS.
I'm no honda expert, but K-series swap with a turbo?
yea at this point you can get a stock k to 400hp with a ebay turbo.
Sell it and buy a Mustang? 
K20 seems like the logical swap. The Honda guys seem to think that 300hp on a K20 is fine. I built an NA K20A2 that made 240+ HP at the wheels (were your talking crank or wheel HP?) running on E85. Tracked it for two years with no issues. I think you could get close to 300HP crank NA with higher compression and E85 and expect it to be reliable.
Snrub said:I'm no honda expert, but K-series swap with a turbo?
I kind of thought about it but being a teen in the Sport Compact Car era I always wanted to do a b-series swap or d-series build.
It all depends on how long you want to make the power. 1/4 mile is a different world than endurance racing. We tried the well built turbo D16 in our lemons car and it was excellent until it blew a head gasket, repeat again and again, despite doing everything to avoid it including ARP studs and cometic gaskets. We swapped to a K series that is totally stock and is faster, but it was a lot of work.
I can give you all the tips to make a turbo D series that will do great on the street and short races. I even have all the turbo stuff we no longer use
Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) said:Sell it and buy a Mustang?
Where is the vomit emoji?
Sonic said:It all depends on how long you want to make the power. 1/4 mile is a different world than endurance racing. We tried the well built turbo D16 in our lemons car and it was excellent until it blew a head gasket, repeat again and again, despite doing everything to avoid it including ARP studs and cometic gaskets. We swapped to a K series that is totally stock and is faster, but it was a lot of work.
I can give you all the tips to make a turbo D series that will do great on the street and short races. I even have all the turbo stuff we no longer use
SMF autocross and street driving is the plan.
What did it take to do the K-series swap? I get the feeling it is more tricky then the B-series. Isnt the K-series physically a bit bigger engine?
jwagner (Forum Supporter) said:K20 seems like the logical swap. The Honda guys seem to think that 300hp on a K20 is fine. I built an NA K20A2 that made 240+ HP at the wheels (were your talking crank or wheel HP?) running on E85. Tracked it for two years with no issues. I think you could get close to 300HP crank NA with higher compression and E85 and expect it to be reliable.
Wheel horsepower is my goal. Can you get that N/A out of a K-series without spending massive amounts of money? That would let me be lighter (not sure if I can get a 93 Civic coupe that light with Street Mod rules).
93EXCivic said:Will a D16Z6 hold up to enough boost to make 300hp reliably or do I need to do a B series swap? If I did a B-series swap, is it worth getting a VTEC motor over a non-VTEC one if I am throwing boost at it?
Edit: It looks like D-series would need pistons, rods and ARP studs to get 300hp.
Is that more expensive or less expensive than a B swap?
Personally while I like the easy button (pull the head and oil pan, swap in new pistons and rods, insert studs when putting head back on) if a cheapo low compression B20 can get you there for minimal pain in the ass swap-wise, displacement makes boost a lot more drivable. Nothing sucks to drive more than an engine that drives like a light switch. Sure, a lightswitch engine is giggleworthy when just playing around, but when you are trying to drive the car for a purpose, a linear engine is less likely to be frustrating.
Heck, I marvel at how much my "big" 2.5l 300hp engine feels lag-free on the street, like a smooth effortless big-block, but the few times I decided to dodge cones with it, the turbo lag was quite apparent. And maddening. Wonder if I can 13B swap the Volvo? Holley carbs ain't got no lag...
The degree of difficulty on a K swap is in directly related to your budget. The aftermarket can provide everything you need to make it a bolt in and plug in swap. I did all of my own wiring to keep the budget down, for example.
Having an EG makes it easier than my EF as the engine bay is bigger. Yes, the K is notably larger than the B or D, we had to cut the hood and make a scoop. Getting enough radiator is harder in the EF too with the smaller engine bay.
It will be expensive to get a K to 300whp NA. 225whp is easy: K24a2 with RSX-S oil pump, intake manifold, throttle body and VTC gear, then standard intake/header/exhaust/ tune. I'm at 205whp 185wtq with only home made I/H/E and tune and an otherwise stock K24a2, keeping the redline to 7k to make it last for endurance racing. The extra 1500 rpm you get by the other oil pump helps with power, and the other manifold is what flows at those RPMs.
The easy button would be a K24 with a supercharger, that's 300whp easy. The trans from an 06-11 Civic Si is readily available and comes with a limited slip and good ratios.
If you are going to the trouble of swapping to a different engine series, might as well go right to K. B series stuff is starting to get thin on the ground while K stuff is everywhere.
Rotrex k swap will provide the “best 300hp” imho.
Sonic said:The degree of difficulty on a K swap is in directly related to your budget. The aftermarket can provide everything you need to make it a bolt in and plug in swap. I did all of my own wiring to keep the budget down, for example.
Having an EG makes it easier than my EF as the engine bay is bigger. Yes, the K is notably larger than the B or D, we had to cut the hood and make a scoop. Getting enough radiator is harder in the EF too with the smaller engine bay.
It will be expensive to get a K to 300whp NA. 225whp is easy: K24a2 with RSX-S oil pump, intake manifold, throttle body and VTC gear, then standard intake/header/exhaust/ tune. I'm at 205whp 185wtq with only home made I/H/E and tune and an otherwise stock K24a2, keeping the redline to 7k to make it last for endurance racing. The extra 1500 rpm you get by the other oil pump helps with power, and the other manifold is what flows at those RPMs.
The easy button would be a K24 with a supercharger, that's 300whp easy. The trans from an 06-11 Civic Si is readily available and comes with a limited slip and good ratios.
If you are going to the trouble of swapping to a different engine series, might as well go right to K. B series stuff is starting to get thin on the ground while K stuff is everywhere.
Yeah from what I was reading 300hp N/A might be doable with K20/24 hybrid with cams, high compression pistons, cam plus intake/exhaust/tune. Is a turbo setup less common for a K-series?
How much more does the K-series weight then a D or B series?
The thing I like about a D-series turbo is I can slap the turbo on it sooner and get to 220hp ish and then build a motor to take more boost to put in later. B-series is appealing as a teen of that time period when all the cool kids where doing the B-series swap but a K-series makes more logical sense.
If you're serious about SMF, figure out which way will get you the lowest minimum weight, then build the car to hit that weight. I would think a b16/18 with boost or a built k24 NA would be the best options, but not the cheapest.
300hp Vtec D series:
D16Zd block
D16Y8 head
mill as much as you dare from both.
Vitara pistons
Any Aftermarket connecting rod
Good Bearings
Honda Y8 or FelPro head gasket
Arp studs
Any aftermarket valve spring
Pick a cam to suit your turbo and gears.
A $50 cast iron log will work, as will anything else manifold wise
T3T4 50 trim will get you there GT30 will get you there quicker
1200cc injectors
That's about it and would be super reliable at that power level could easily make closer to 500 with the right fixins most if not all of that stuff is stupid cheap which is the real brilliance of D series.
B series are pointless unless you're shooting for nostalgia or like a quick and easy bolt in swap.
300hp NA K series is spendy
It's a chore to only make 300hp with a turbocharged one. Any unpopular K series (CRV, Accord, Element, etc) cast iron log, t3/t4 50 trim or GT30, 1200cc injectors will get you probably close to 400hp once tuned. If you have to have the VTECs TSX k24s are still relatively cheap. Stock K24A2s are routinely making well over 500hp while being reliable.
If I were to build another SMF car it would be a turbo D again the drivetrain is so light and well placed in the chassis the little power potential you lose (plenty of 500hp Ds out there these days) is well worth the trade.
I used to play with hondas back in the early '00s. At that point, the most popular way to 300hp (I'm assuming you're talking crank, and not WHP) was a B20 + turbo. VTEC not needed and many considered it not worth the hassle to tune it. I remember a fairly reliable JY build was to pull the B20 out of a first gen CR-V and the turbo from a DSM, fab your own turbo plumbing and exhaust, then Hondata all the things so it didn't blow up.
When we swapped from a turbo d16y8 with a cast manifold to a k24 with a header we gained 18lbs, per my corner weight scales. The engine/trans itself is more, but the turbo, inter cooler, piping, etc was heavy.
Ks are surprisingly light for sure but if we're talking FI for FI
Dressed d16 complete drivetrain is roughly 310lbs. Come October everyone will get to see how that becomes 290lbs even with a big ol turbo
They're also significantly shorter and generally more compact
Dressed Ks vary between 400-420lbs depends on 5 or 6spd, 2.0 or 2.4, fwd or awd etc.
Certainly removing the cast iron exhaust manifold for a header and the general lightening that usually comes with a swap will bring the two closer together.
Ks are great half my cars have Ks I work with them everyday. For a reasonably priced 300hp build I'd still lean D but it's more a matter of preference.
Other thing worth noting on a budget S300s are fairly affordable used. There are even cheaper open source type products.
Kpro is the only game in town and they sell for about the same new and used (~$800). Yes I know there's another ecu option but their customer service is so ridiculously awful I won't so much as mention their name.
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