vwcorvette (Forum Supporter)
vwcorvette (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UberDork
4/12/22 7:18 p.m.

How easy to drop a V8 in place of the six? The car in question has a "smoked clutch" according to the owner. 

The car in question.

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/443857694144449/

 

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy MegaDork
4/12/22 7:26 p.m.

Plumbing, bell housing, engine mounts, wiring, accessory drive.  Ideal would be a complete donor, which can be a Caprice, Monte Carlo, pickup truck or Camaro, except for the bellhousing.  That you'd have to find somewhere.

 

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/12/22 8:21 p.m.

Trans is different, too, not just the bellhousing.  It will have shorter gears, making the trans more likely to blow up behind a V8 (only rated to 195 ft-lb or somesuch).  The input shaft may be longer on V6 models, and part of me thinks that they had Ford trans patterns because the Chevy pattern would be wider than the Metric bellhousing pattern.  That may only be a 4th gen thing.

Off to Google!

Woody (Forum Supportum)
Woody (Forum Supportum) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/12/22 9:02 p.m.

Is the V6 rear axle up to the task of putting down V8 power?

GCrites80s
GCrites80s Dork
4/12/22 9:10 p.m.

I don't think anything other than 9-bolts or 10-bolts came on these cars.

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/12/22 9:12 p.m.

In reply to GCrites80s :

Yep, all came with the 7.5/7.62 rear.  Even the 4 cylinder models.  (note: except Firebird Formula 350 with the Aussie rear)

The only manual trans 3rd gen I have ever seen was a 4 speed 2.5.

Wxdude10 - Mike
Wxdude10 - Mike HalfDork
4/12/22 10:05 p.m.

If you wanted to do something a little different, maybe swap a 3400/3500 into it?  That'll get you into the similar power range as the common v8s of the time.  And it'll be several hundred pounds lighter and the same bolt pattern/input shaft to the t5

if you wanted to be totally crazy, do the 3900..  240 hp

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy MegaDork
4/12/22 10:25 p.m.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:

In reply to GCrites80s :

Yep, all came with the 7.5/7.62 rear.  Even the 4 cylinder models.  (note: except Firebird Formula 350 with the Aussie rear)

The only manual trans 3rd gen I have ever seen was a 4 speed 2.5.

82 and 83 Z28 models used an M22.  Very rare, though.

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/12/22 10:44 p.m.
Wxdude10 - Mike said:

If you wanted to do something a little different, maybe swap a 3400/3500 into it?  That'll get you into the similar power range as the common v8s of the time.  And it'll be several hundred pounds lighter and the same bolt pattern/input shaft to the t5

if you wanted to be totally crazy, do the 3900..  240 hp

It's not the same, though.  The 2.8 is a rear drive engine with the starter on the right, like other rear drive Chevy engines.  The 3400/3500 were only ever made with front wheel drive blocks, with the starter on the left.

I think, but not 100%, you could in theory just hack a starter pocket out of the trans but the clutch slave mounting might be an issue, maybe.

The other thing is there was never a rear drive 3400, so you'd be on your own for figuring out the coolant routing.  Usually an engine with the thermostat on the back has different head gaskets than if the thermostat is on the front, so the coolant doesn't shortchange any cylinders.  (The 4th gens did have a 3.4, but this is a rear drive engine, definitely not a 3400)  Again not insurmountable in the least but something to pay attention to.

At least headers for a 2.8 will bolt up to a 3400.  Not a 3500 or 3900.

 

I'd sooner run a 3800 myself, just because.  The 60 degree architecture is VERY camshaft limited because of how high the cams are.  You can run a nice big cam in a 3800 smiley  3800 was available rear drive but, like the 3400/3500, they only came with front drive blocks...

Wxdude10 - Mike
Wxdude10 - Mike HalfDork
4/12/22 10:54 p.m.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

Bellhousing from the S10 2.2 manual has the pockets for both left and right starter mounts, if I recall correctly, and the fwd bolt pattern. 

There are two 3500's.  The first one is a slightly bigger 3400.  The second is a short stroke 3900.  


But I get it.  It's a Crammit.  It needs V8 vroom vroom noises.

I have a dream of putting a 3900 in a C4.  Preferably an early one.  Nothing like getting rid of the crossfire, getting close/below 3000 lbs, and more powar!

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/12/22 11:00 p.m.

In reply to Wxdude10 - Mike :

I like that idea!

Supposedly the reason that the 3100/3400 got those horrible log manifolds while the 3800 got shorty headers was to artificially keep the "cheaper" engine down on power compared to the 200hp 3800, and that just putting headers on will make similar power.  Certainly the heads on the late 3100/3400 look really nice.  It's a shame that your camshaft options are a small roller or a slightly less small flat tappet.

racerfink
racerfink UltraDork
4/12/22 11:34 p.m.

2.0L turbo Ecotec would liven it up.  Already RWD application, and a really good Tremec six speed manual that goes with it.

vwcorvette (Forum Supporter)
vwcorvette (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UberDork
4/13/22 11:32 a.m.

Well, I was considering this car for the small block in my 92 Safari. Trans has died. It has the smaller 10 bolt rear in it. So the SBC won't bolt up easily to the V6 bell housing the way it did in the van? Okay.

Indy - Guy
Indy - Guy PowerDork
4/13/22 11:40 a.m.

In reply to vwcorvette (Forum Supporter) :

Jean-Claude-Damn-Van is being dismantled?

NO !

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy MegaDork
4/13/22 11:44 a.m.
vwcorvette (Forum Supporter) said:

Well, I was considering this car for the small block in my 92 Safari. Trans has died. It has the smaller 10 bolt rear in it. So the SBC won't bolt up easily to the V6 bell housing the way it did in the van? Okay.

Van had a 4.3, which shares 6 of the 8 cylinders with a 350.  Camaro had a 2.8, which shares nothing with a V8.

ian sane
ian sane Dork
4/13/22 11:47 a.m.

Vortec4200 swap! Bonus points for turdbo.

Although a 4.3 could be cool if it was sy/ty engine clone.

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/13/22 1:59 p.m.

As has been pointed out, the 2.8L uses the Metric bellhousing pattern which simply means you'll need a different trans.  You could adapt, but your clutch will be limited to 9" and the trans will likely explode.  Just find a 350 and a manual to go behind it.  LS is an easy fit, especially if you don't need A/C.  If you want A/C, you'll need to notch the crossmember or relocate the compressor

Rear axle was never up to V8 snuff.... even on the later LS cars.  They survive only because they're traction limited.  I've popped a 7.625" carrier right out the cover with nothing more than a set of R888 tires.  There are zero junkyard upgrades.  Strictly aftermarket and pricey.  But, just leave it traction limited and you'll be fine.

Otherwise, that body was offered with a small block so it should be a straight forward swap.

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/13/22 2:00 p.m.
vwcorvette (Forum Supporter) said:

Well, I was considering this car for the small block in my 92 Safari. Trans has died. It has the smaller 10 bolt rear in it. So the SBC won't bolt up easily to the V6 bell housing the way it did in the van? Okay.

Correct.  The 4.3L uses a small block trans pattern.  The 2.8L uses a smaller metric pattern.

03Panther
03Panther UberDork
4/13/22 6:52 p.m.

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

To add to:

2.8, 3.1, 3.4 fwd and rwd 

also 3800 fwd, 3800 series II in fwd and RWD. Earlier 231/3.8 RWD was BOP. 
both the 3.4 and 3800 II came in RWD in the f body depending on year. And Holden. 

GCrites80s
GCrites80s Dork
4/13/22 10:02 p.m.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

 

Rear axle was never up to V8 snuff.... even on the later LS cars.  They survive only because they're traction limited.  I've popped a 7.625" carrier right out the cover with nothing more than a set of R888 tires.  There are zero junkyard upgrades.  Strictly aftermarket and pricey.  But, just leave it traction limited and you'll be fine.

8.8 Fords WERE cheap, easy upgrades up until a few years ago but now builders snap them all up so that they can sell them for $2500+.

vwcorvette (Forum Supporter)
vwcorvette (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UberDork
4/13/22 10:22 p.m.

Guess I'll pass on this one. I'm just tired of dealing with the trans problems in the van. Converting that to a manual won't be easy either.

wspohn
wspohn SuperDork
4/14/22 11:21 a.m.

Been through this - I installed a 3.4 in one of my British cars and wanted the V8 T5 ratios which are better, so had to buy that trans and then source a V6 bellhousing separately (both versions will bolt to the T5).

Be aware that in the Camaro/Firebird, the trans mounts at an angle that puts the shifter closer to the driver. The Ford versions of the T5 mount upright, but also have shorter tailshafts that would require a different driveshaft.

Th T5 was OK for the  stock 5.0 V8s in the Mustang and GMs but if you are going to increase power much beyond stock you would probably be better with a heavier duty trans.

You might find this reference handy - gives applications and ratios cross referenced to the tag number on the trans.

http://www.britishv8.org/Articles/Borg-Warner-T5-ID-Tags.htm

 

PS - no need to go with an HTOB release bearing if you have room in the tunnel. This is the custom job I did to mount a TR6 slave on the V6 T5 bellhousing.

 

 

Our Preferred Partners
bs6vA9FCVZTtEchUiuwcSvvUQyEvY1SnKlQ7Yt6zzI7cvtVU1LtP53o3x3edYuCn