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Vigo
Vigo UltimaDork
3/18/19 11:54 a.m.

 

I've just returned from a 9 day road trip that included stops in California, Nevada, and Arizona. The most time was spent in the Los Angeles area. 

 

When planning the trip I thought there was a pretty good chance I would end up disliking Los Angeles, but our trip included two other friends who had a lot of family in the area, and I knew there would be some good museums and was generally curious about the geography of the place, so we went anyway. 

 

TLDR is I hated being in Los Angeles, and for exactly the reason I expected to. It is a pain in the ass to get anywhere. It's interesting to think that California is somehow the epicenter of car culture. Going through Los Angeles in 2019, it seems like the place  where the car, the whole idea of the car as it is today, goes to die.

 

 The LA area has about ~18,000,000 people in it and is so sprawled over such a huge area that the thought of comprehensive, effective public transit is laughable. One of the main things I noticed as a 'car person' in LA is that the city is actually overpopulated with cars. This was the first time in my life that I ever thought of cars as pollution even when they were parked and turned off! Cars are blight in LA. There are cars parked everywhere, lining nearly every block, shoved into any car-sized space making almost every road unpleasant to navigate and every parking lot a battleground. I suspect that the main reason for this is California's housing problems. The cost of housing is so much that housing ends up being very dense and also densely populated, so that there are relatively few houses that actually have enough parking for the number of people living in them and this overdensity infects every old area that can't grow its parking infrastructure to accommodate. In fact, it seems like you can basically pinpoint someone's level of 'parking privilege' by the amount of damage on their bumpers. Nearly every car i saw street parked in LA had bumper corner damage related to parking mishaps. By extension, you could tell that pretty much anyone with clean bumpers was one of the ones who actually had a privately owned space to keep their privately owned things in. What a concept. 

 

Parking lots are... interesting in LA. You see valets working tiny, terrible little lots that as a Texan I am semi-offended that anyone would think to try and charge me money for the 'privilege' of parking in. There are nice parking lots too. Those ones have ticket booths so you can at least financially incentivize the lack of adequate infrastructure without the indignity of handing that money directly to a human being.  There is also a strange (to me) density of laundromats. I guess having your own washer and drier is a part of 1st world living that has not penetrated fully into the 2nd-largest city in one of the richest nations of the world. Need to do laundry? No problem, let's just get into our car and become traffic on the way to the parking lot we have to pay to get into and pay to wash so that the illusion of not living in squalor at least extends slightly past our clothing. And when we get back let's try not to mark up the cars in front and behind as we parallel park into a spot 1 ft longer than our car that's 2 blocks from the building we live in.

 

The highways are clogged, even on Sunday nights. You realize while 'driving' around that the only reason you have to go so far through the morass of people is that the morass of people needing to be housed dictates the great distances. When you need to get across town you are basically needing to get across many millions of people. Traffic on surface streets here makes me understand why electric scooter rentals were born in California. This is the bleeding edge of what excessive population and density do to our notions of car-based travel. This is the kind of driving that makes you want autonomy, or to just not be in a car. I wouldn't have been a car enthusiast in LA. It's great that SoCal has so many neat places to escape to within a couple hours' travel, but fundamentally I would prefer a lot less need to escape from my daily conditions.

 

 I live in what is merely the 7th largest city in the US and I learned to drive at the dawn of the 21st century with the basic expectation that you could travel roughly 1 mile per minute by car. LA car travel is so laughably far below that that car travel feels forced and inefficient to the point that I feel dirty about it. That i've concentrated so much material and skilled labor and personal earnings into this expensive wheeled contraption that converts sequestered carbon into de-sequestered carbon, for this? Just so i can do this? Crawl along at jogging speed? It feels almost immoral. It breaks my personal thought-model of why cars are ok in spite of everything that's wrong with them. Here, they just feel like a necessary evil, not a necessary evil with so many upsides that they're my favorite thing in the world. Just grindingly, tediously necessary because we've broken the system in which they worked well but failed to come up with anything better.

 

It's interesting that from afar California is known for heavy-handed government, because driving through LA I got the exact opposite impression. Every 50 feet you see something built with no regard to whatever is 50 feet to its left or right. It really seems like there was almost no urban planning or zoning involved in the growth of LA, which begs the mind to create clever allusions to cancer. It's like the government just didn't say no to anything. On the other hand, you see strange glimpses of government intrusion in daily life, like having to pay money for the bag you put the things you already paid money for into when leaving a store. Paying extra fees to use a card? Allowing motorcycles to legally pass within inches of you at unsafe speed delta (lane splitting) and then putting a sign on the side of the road that says I need to give 3 feet of courtesy when i pass a bicycle when the safety problem in both cases is nearly identical and you might as well let me pass within inches of them at unsafe speed delta too. Limiting the use of lanes in a city with a huge dearth of highway infrastructure to those with multiple passengers or certain classes of vehicle. As if California needed to bring more attention to the fact that it is one giant stratified class-based system of privilege where the many suffer,  although to be honest it does seem like road traffic is one way in which the rich still live in undignified conditions here.

 

When you crest big hills around the edge of the city and look over the landscape you can simultaneously understand why it filled up with people, and why it shouldn't have. It looks like it was a nice place before 18,000,000 people moved in. In the present day it seems like it serves mostly as a warning of what the general trend of people moving from the country to the city could eventually do to the way we live. What limits do we put in place to prevent this? Is it even right for government to do any such thing? California is full of well-meaning policy that exacerbates its own problems, but what are we learning from its policy failures? With the types of housing and modes of transport that we have now, I just don't see that it's possible to put 18m people in close confines without giving up on a lot of our stereotypical american ideas of standard of living and freedom. I guess a lot of the people living there don't feel that way, but given that California is simultaneously the state with the biggest influx of people and also has net negative population growth (more people leaving than coming), obviously a lot of people do. 

My hometown of San Antonio has been the victim of huge growth, substantially of California ex-pats (and half of California's population is just LA). Having now been to LA, i can absolutely see the appeal. Low housing costs, a modicum of space, a SINGLE-family dwelling. Even the traffic created here, while bad by San Antonio standards, is a dream compared to run of the mill LA traffic. But they still created all that traffic, gentrified neighborhoods and drove up housing costs. Everything moved in an LA direction. I want to see LA people happier (there is a whole other rant about how I've correlated the conditions of LA to the stereotypical personality traits of Californians who moved to Texas), but not by transplanting those problems into other areas.

 

 Ultimately we would have to change the incentive structure of governance to make population growth ever not suck. Governments love density, but they never cough up enough infrastructure investment to make it not suck to live in. If that never changes, the growth of cities will always be a slow slide to ruin. Not financial ruin of elites who profit from density and can largely pay for the privilege of not suffering their fellow man as they go around exercising their greater freedom, but ruin of the rest of us who will be packed in ever closer and closer together while taking longer and longer to get anywhere and paying higher prices competing for resources that have not grown in pace with population.  

 

I know this is a post about cars, but cars are what made modern cities possible and as a car lover I hate the idea that the unchecked city will also be the death of the car as i know it. But, maybe it is inevitable. I did go to the Petersen Automotive Museum and while I liked it, I found it fitting that it is right next to the La Brea Tar Pits. The idea of cars mounted up as immobile remembrances of the past just like the fossils across the street bore new foreboding. The LA conditions are the sticking, sinking pit that that the car falls into and, by becoming nearly immobile, dies in. LA may be a historical epicenter of car culture, but if we love the car as we know it, we have to prevent LA from ever happening again! 

 

dculberson
dculberson UltimaDork
3/18/19 12:09 p.m.

Well, I enjoyed reading it!

RealMiniNoMore
RealMiniNoMore PowerDork
3/18/19 12:13 p.m.
dculberson said:

Well, I enjoyed reading it!

As did I.

docwyte
docwyte UltraDork
3/18/19 12:16 p.m.

Motorcycle lane splitting is the norm across the majority of this planet.  It works and it works well.  California is the only state enlightened enough to allow it, which is a shame.

1988RedT2
1988RedT2 UltimaDork
3/18/19 1:02 p.m.
Vigo said:

 Ultimately we would have to change the incentive structure of governance to make population growth ever not suck. Governments love density, but they never cough up enough infrastructure investment to make it not suck to live in. If that never changes, the growth of cities will always be a slow slide to ruin. Not financial ruin of elites who profit from density and can largely pay for the privilege of not suffering their fellow man as they go around exercising their greater freedom, but ruin of the rest of us who will be packed in ever closer and closer together while taking longer and longer to get anywhere and paying higher prices competing for resources that have not grown in pace with population.  

 

Very well-stated. 

chandler
chandler PowerDork
3/18/19 1:24 p.m.
docwyte said:

Motorcycle lane splitting is the norm across the majority of this planet.  It works and it works well.  California is the only state enlightened enough to allow it, which is a shame.

Lots of states allow it at stop lights which is about the only place I’d allow it or want to do it.

yupididit
yupididit GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
3/18/19 1:30 p.m.

Cars are abandoned all over LA. They sometimes run really well but cant pass smog so they're parked or junked. Then people like me can go pick them up on the low and take it out of state lol

 

 

 

The housing situation in LA proper is really bad. There's been ideas to build affordable ($2000 rent) housing in the form of skyrise apartments but the people who currently own homes there do not want it. They associate "affordable housing" with the ghetto/section8/etc. NOT IN MY BACKYARD! 

In reality you can make 75k a year there and not afford an actual house. Thus these workers have to live outside of California in places like Riverside (50min away). I lived in Riverside and most of my neighbors commuted to LA every day. They would love to live close to work but they couldn't afford it on their sub-$100k income. That commuting 

When I moved to San Antonio people would complain about traffic but the 1 mile a minute is so true here. In SoCal its most definitely .23 miles a minute lol 

Once you learn the way of the land and streets you'll learn how to navigate LA faster than a visitor could. 

docwyte
docwyte UltraDork
3/18/19 3:43 p.m.

In reply to chandler :

Nope.  The only state that allows motorcycle lane splitting is California.  None of the other states allow it, whether its up to a stop light or not.

 

It seems to me the larger problem here is simply population growth.  As it grows and people move to desirable areas, they have a need for somewhere to live.  Than they bring cars and drivers, etc...

Steelpig
Steelpig New Reader
3/18/19 4:09 p.m.

In reply to chandler :

I'm a recent arrival to LA, and Lane Splitting is not as frightening as it seems.  The vast majority of people are very aware of motorcycles.  I recently started commuting to LA and my 33 mile drive turned out to be 2 hours by car.  Its 45 minutes on the motorcycle.

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
3/18/19 4:16 p.m.

So, did you like LA?  wink

You missed one of the lovely trends in LA (other then the wildly exploding homeless situation): converting roads to... wait for it.. be more appropriate for bicycles!!  Yes, the city that can barely shove the 10 lbs of cars into it's 5 lb bag, is actually disadvantaging cars in favor of bikes!  You know, so you can commute from Riverside, on a 10 speed!!!  Argh.

To be clear, I, VERY thankfully, do not live in LA county, and can tell you, there is genuine dread any time I have to go near the city proper, especially anytime between 8 am and 7 pm.  Things are not really any better on weekends.  It has also clearly gotten much worse in the last 10 years.

Lane splitting is only an issue (as with many other things) when it is done by an a-hole.  Lane splitting at +10 mph is not big deal, it's when some douchebag does it at +30 mph or has open pipes.  That said, I would be pretty terrified to do it in some areas of LA. 

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
3/18/19 4:27 p.m.

Interestingly enough I just spent four days in the Palm Springs area and my impressions of southern California were wildly different. When I was done there I flew to Denver. There is an astonishing amount of nothing once you get away from people. 

Kreb
Kreb GRM+ Memberand UberDork
3/18/19 4:35 p.m.

I went to college there in the 80s. Also drove a limo. It was bad even then, but you could strategize around it. More recently I took a couple of vacations in San Diego and had to drive through LA to get there. I tried to time my mad dashes through LA to avoid the traffic and failed every time. My takeaway was that 24/7 there are traffic jams somewhere in the area. 

Cool place to live in the 80s though. Three blocks from Venice Beach. Fantastic times as long as you stayed healthy (those were the early AIDS years). 

docwyte
docwyte UltraDork
3/18/19 5:05 p.m.

In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :

Next time you're coming to Denver let me know.  We can get together for a beer or a meal or whatever...

yupididit
yupididit GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
3/18/19 6:17 p.m.
mazdeuce - Seth said:

Interestingly enough I just spent four days in the Palm Springs area and my impressions of southern California were wildly different. When I was done there I flew to Denver. There is an astonishing amount of nothing once you get away from people. 

Palm Springs is seemingly a different world than LA. Its more of a 120 degree summer oasis lol

Toebra
Toebra Dork
3/18/19 6:39 p.m.

Nobody goes to PS in the summertime.  Now is when you go there.

 

It will be interesting to see how things play out in California when the rest of the tax base moves out of state and nobody left is paying any taxes.

Dave M
Dave M Reader
3/19/19 7:13 a.m.

Bunch of Texas people complaining about California. Isn't it enough to complain about all the California expats moving to Texas? :)

Seriously though, those of us from California get it: there are way, way too many people in the three big cities. And a housing crisis brought on by NIMBYs (encouraged by stupid 1970s tax laws) and too little density, not too much (after all, LA county is roughly the size of the Netherlands and is stuffed with single family homes). Not to mention too little water, the natural disasters, the politics, etc.....

If only everyone would leave so I could go back home!

Robbie
Robbie GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
3/19/19 8:38 a.m.

Sounds like city planning issues that cause personal transportation issues.

If there were no cars, LA would also be a disaster. It is so spread out, you still need something to transport you around. Can you imagine if everyone instead owned a horse?

There are plenty of cities where lots of people can live without needing individual personal transportation.

docwyte
docwyte UltraDork
3/19/19 8:38 a.m.

Well all of us in Colorado complain about the Texans, so I guess it just keeps rolling downhill!

Vigo
Vigo UltimaDork
3/19/19 9:55 a.m.

Sounds like city planning issues that cause personal transportation issues.

That was my main takeaway. I'd say the planning is similarly bad in tons of places, but the extreme numbers of people in LA really bring the weaknesses of our methods to the forefront. Unless there is a transportation revolution, i just don't think cities that big will ever be pleasant for someone like me to be in. 

 too little density, not too much (after all, LA county is roughly the size of the Netherlands and is stuffed with single family homes).

LA seems like a place where getting away from the car as we know it could work, but it's mostly because of the weather (so, much of CA i guess)! In my hometown your car is simultaneously transportation and shelter. There has been some talk from city leaders here about making the city more 'walkable' etc and in my mind it's a veiled threat to send me back in time 70 years before normal middle class people had air conditioned cars. Unless i'm walking under a self propelled climate controlled umbrella thingy or something, it's a non starter for about half the year. I already work and do some leisure activity in the heat by choice, but I'm not willing to give up the option of an air conditioned conveyance just for the privilege of having thousands more people in closer proximity to me. 

Well all of us in Colorado complain about the Texans, so I guess it just keeps rolling downhill!

Colorado has made itself a popular destination among even young Texans now. I guess you could say instead of weeding them out, your state is weeding them in. wink 

 

Did I mention my gf is the only Texan-born member of her family of ex-californians and that we borrowed the RV we traveled in from an ex-californian friend? It's not like I don't like californians, but what you do commonly run into in Texas is people who obfuscate the reasons they left while acting like CA is a dreamland and living in TX is some kind of punishment. It goes to the whole thing of those who dont learn from history are doomed to repeat it, and I don't want LA repeated in San Antonio. 

Dave M
Dave M Reader
3/19/19 11:17 a.m.

In reply to Vigo :

It's already been repeated in Houston, so once is enough I guess? :)

wlkelley3
wlkelley3 UltraDork
3/19/19 12:03 p.m.

So I take it you'll not want to be moving there. devil  .

Yeah, a lot of us ex-Californians understand. I grew up just north of Santa Barbara in the 60's-70's and LA was bad then too. Now it is solid city from Santa Barbara to San Diego along the coast line. I left in 76 when I went in the military and only go back to visit family still there. My sister used to live in the bay area, she said it would take over 2 hours to drive 20 miles through town to get to work. Her and husband moved up to Ukiah area and it still took 2 hours  to drive 90 miles to get to work but less traffic. I live in Huntsville, Alabama now and think it's starting to get bad here. Area is growing and businesses are moving here. Good for the economy but makes driving more difficult. But still nothing like LA.

wearymicrobe
wearymicrobe UberDork
3/19/19 12:19 p.m.

I am stuck here though in San Diego. I hate it. I hate the LA drive to the airport, I hate the 5 freeway I hate the commute. I am even starting to hate the people but mostly its just the laws that allow anyone and everyone to do really what ever they want if they have money. California / LA / SD does anything and everything for tax revenue to the detriment of the people who live and work in the areas they want to develop. 

Want to skip paying for registration or sales tax. Register in Montana and by a 9/11 plate cover for 10K and you could run over the pope. 

Work for a living and drive say an older civic and forget your registration for a few days and car is impounded. 

Want to drive with no license if your not here legally from another state and never moved your license. Go right ahead,  even in an accident you will not be cited. 

It has beautiful areas if you have the money and the absolute ability to not give single E36 M3 about anyone else and live in your little bubble. I have 7 more years here on contract and I am GONE after this. 

 

 

 

AnthonyGS
AnthonyGS GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
3/19/19 12:46 p.m.
docwyte said:

Motorcycle lane splitting is the norm across the majority of this planet.  It works and it works well.  California is the only state enlightened enough to allow it, which is a shame.

It’s actually legal in TX too, you’d just need a death wish to be willing to do it.  I did see a motorcyclist doing it in San Antonio this weekend.  He survived long enough to exit my view.

AnthonyGS
AnthonyGS GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
3/19/19 12:52 p.m.

I am an equal opportunity Texan curmudgeon.  I complain about all the people coming to our state from all over the US.  They come here for the economy but vote for the same politics that ruined their previous home.  It will ruin TX too.  The three big cities in TX are well on their way to becoming LA.  Dallas is leading the way in that regard.  If my job wasn’t her, I’d be in a much more remote part of the state.  I’m leaving the city for my 60th birthday and not returning.  

1988RedT2
1988RedT2 UltimaDork
3/19/19 1:28 p.m.
wearymicrobe said:

I am stuck here though in San Diego. I hate it. I hate the LA drive to the airport, I hate the 5 freeway I hate the commute. I am even starting to hate the people but mostly its just the laws that allow anyone and everyone to do really what ever they want if they have money. California / LA / SD does anything and everything for tax revenue to the detriment of the people who live and work in the areas they want to develop. 

Want to skip paying for registration or sales tax. Register in Montana and by a 9/11 plate cover for 10K and you could run over the pope. 

Work for a living and drive say an older civic and forget your registration for a few days and car is impounded. 

Want to drive with no license if your not here legally from another state and never moved your license. Go right ahead,  even in an accident you will not be cited. 

It has beautiful areas if you have the money and the absolute ability to not give single E36 M3 about anyone else and live in your little bubble. I have 7 more years here on contract and I am GONE after this. 

 

 

 

I understand what you're saying, and in your shoes, I'd probably go bat-bleep crazy, but don't let it make you cynical. smiley

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