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RevolutionRacing
RevolutionRacing New Reader
2/16/22 5:12 p.m.

In reply to Nader :

We tried, that place is booked solid. We will continue to try.

 

RevolutionRacing
RevolutionRacing New Reader
2/16/22 5:12 p.m.

In reply to Driven5 :

yes, they're open to all to come and watch.

RevolutionRacing
RevolutionRacing New Reader
2/16/22 5:17 p.m.

In reply to MaxC :

We just want to race wide open, our series allows that.

RevolutionRacing
RevolutionRacing New Reader
2/16/22 5:20 p.m.

In reply to Javelin :

He was paid for that image. we replaced it anyway.

Javelin
Javelin GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
2/16/22 5:55 p.m.

In reply to RevolutionRacing :

Would you mind addressing cold calling all of the LuckyDog racing teams using information from LuckyDog's HQ without their (or the participant's) permission?

Muffflerbearing
Muffflerbearing
2/16/22 7:30 p.m.
Javelin said:

In reply to RevolutionRacing :

Would you mind addressing cold calling all of the LuckyDog racing teams using information from LuckyDog's HQ without their (or the participant's) permission?

Thank you for the question!  I'm Tom that is one of the three owners of RRL (Revolution Racing League) and just happen to also own Turn2 Motorsports.  We never had access to LuckyDog's HQ list.  We have been using Turn2's extensive driver lists, as I own this list myself, inviting drivers to come check out this new series!  I always felt talking to people directly is so much more productive and personal.

We love Cathy and Lucky Dog.  That has not changed.  We would like to think that we can co exist and use her series as a feeder series.  I have talked with her about this from the onset.  I personally have invested in Lucky Dog through training and instruction over the last several years and want to see that series prosper.  We have some fundamental differences which has given birth to this new series.

Muffflerbearing
Muffflerbearing New Reader
2/16/22 7:35 p.m.
thatsnowinnebago said:

Cool seeing PIR get some love. Think these races will be spectator friendly?

Absoutely!  We would love to have spectators show up and cheer on their favorite teams!  As Turn2 will be running the TNT events on the Fridays prior to the races, you may just be able to get a ride in a car, at speed, on the track!

RRLTom
RRLTom New Reader
2/16/22 7:46 p.m.
Noddaz said:

Could you make a VW TDi fast enough to run in class A to allow the 24 gallons of fuel to be able  to make up the lost time difference per lap while other racers are pitting 10 minutes for gas... 

I have thought that exact thing!  There is no time penalty for a driver change, so why not?  With the wider tires and the right set up, that car may not even have to slow down for corners!  We had a VW Bug diesel that was turned up and after a day of lapping, I asked him how much fuel he burned.  He proudly stated, 5 gallons!  Of course, there were no mosquitos though.  He was rollin coal.

RRLTom
RRLTom New Reader
2/16/22 7:49 p.m.
Javelin said:
MaxC said:

I believe this series is former LD racers wanting to not be restricted by LD rules and lap times. Very interested to see how it turns out!

Which is funny, because LuckyDog was made by former ChumpCar racers who didn't want to be restricted and ChumpCar was made by former LeMons racers who didn't want to be restricted and LeMons was made by former SCCA racers who didn't want to be restricted...

So true!  I have raced in every one of these series mentioned and with each iteration, the racing has gotten better and better.  With the common sense changes we are making, it'll be the next best racing series.

RRLTom
RRLTom New Reader
2/16/22 7:51 p.m.
wvumtnbkr said:

I kinda like these rules.

 

If they come east, I'll try it for sure.  Class B, here I come!

That may take several years to venture out East.  You can come on out West and do an arrive and drive with one of our teams!  We can set you up with some real winners.

RRLTom
RRLTom New Reader
2/16/22 7:56 p.m.
Nader said:

Too bad it's not going to Pacific Raceways (Seattle's "home track").

I started talking with Jason, Pacific Raceways owner, mid summer last year about this series.  It's great to know that the tracks are in such demand and legacy events are set, that they are sold out year in and year out.  This is also the reason that the Portland race is in March, the dates are sold out in April.  Hopefully 2023, we will be able to get an April date there.

RRLTom
RRLTom New Reader
2/16/22 8:05 p.m.
trigun7469 said:

The events are not listed on the Portland Int'l, The Ridge Motorsports Park, Spokane looks to be closed and I wasn't able to look at ORP calender just kept loading.

Good that you are looking into this.  I have contracts for each event that we are running at each venue.  We are pleased to announce that after months and months of working with the new owners at Spokane, they are going to open the doors for 2022 season and they will have vintage racing as well as Conference racing there as well.  I have a calendar meeting with them this Friday for the purchase of roughly 20 more days for Turn2.  We will not announce anything further as they are preparing to announce to the world their big opening.  It's their story to tell and not ours.  I will say, I'm very excited for what is coming!

RRLTom
RRLTom New Reader
2/16/22 8:13 p.m.
kevlarcorolla said:

 I have it on good authority that Hankook doesn't know their a sponsor either.

 Some shady behind the scenes stuff with this one,thats all I'm going to say.

Hankook makes a great endurance tire.  It has proven itself as a good wearing tire, sticky enough and also good in the rain.  Of course we approached Hankook to be our tire sponsor.  They were our first choice.  You can go to www.rrltire.com to where you can purchase the Hankook tire for the series and encourage you to do so.

Also, if you have any other questions, please feel free to ask or even give me a call.  It would be great to answer your questions.

thatsnowinnebago
thatsnowinnebago GRM+ Memberand UberDork
2/16/22 9:44 p.m.
Muffflerbearing said:
thatsnowinnebago said:

Cool seeing PIR get some love. Think these races will be spectator friendly?

Absoutely!  We would love to have spectators show up and cheer on their favorite teams!  As Turn2 will be running the TNT events on the Fridays prior to the races, you may just be able to get a ride in a car, at speed, on the track!

That'd be pretty great

iansane
iansane Dork
2/17/22 11:10 a.m.
birdmayne said:

Any PNW locals who want to get in on this? I'd be game to join a team.

Yes. Yes I would.

Driven5
Driven5 UberDork
2/17/22 12:20 p.m.
RRLTom said:
Noddaz said:

Could you make a VW TDi fast enough to run in class A to allow the 24 gallons of fuel to be able  to make up the lost time difference per lap while other racers are pitting 10 minutes for gas... 

I have thought that exact thing!  There is no time penalty for a driver change, so why not?  With the wider tires and the right set up, that car may not even have to slow down for corners.

My rough math says not worth it. Lets say that the fasetst Class A car that can run a full 2 hour driver stint averages a 2 minute lap. Lets say that said TDI powered Class A car can run 4 hours per fill. Even completely neglecting the 2 hour driver change for the TDI car, it needs to run within 5 seconds per lap of the other car just to meet it at the finish line on every 4 hour interval. Even if the TDI powered car never needed to stop for gas or driver changes, it would still have to run within 10 seconds per lap of the faster car.

So my initial thoughts are...

It seems to me that the real engine performance target would be in figuring out how to make the most power at an average fuel burn rate of 12 GPH for Class A, 9 GPH for Class B, and 6 GPH for Class C for any given car/engine combo at any given track. Build to produce a higher (more powerful) burn rate, then 'derate' to the target GPH. 

Fuel cell should be at least a few gallons larger than the class max, with the fuel system set up for the easiest possible pump-outs and tech-fills. Standard sizes look like they might end up at something like 32 gallon for Class A, 22 gallon for Class B, and 15 gallon for Class C.

With these constraints in mind, the real question to me would be whether to focus on low weight/drag or high downforce. On the one hand would be something like a K-swapped 1st gen Insight with basic splitter, diffuser, and wing. On the other hand would be something like an LS3 swapped 2nd gen S10 with splitter, diffuser, wing, and massive aero tunnels.

 

Speaking of body on frame vehicles... As I read it, the 'tube frame' contextual definition is in reference to replacing unibody structure with a tubular frame. But for body-on-frame vehicles, is it legal to make use of the somewhat 'common' practice of replacement frames that when all mated together still mates to and retains the 'original' front/rear inner fender wells, firewall, and floor/trunk pan? Technically it is a frame made from tubes, but in this context is it a 'tube frame' as such or is it more akin to the use of tubular subframes on unibody cars?

Also, does 'original' simply mean that the original piece is present, present and performing the same function, or present, performing the same function, with absolutely nothing added or removed, and no alterations to the shape?

For example, is there a legal way to widen the transmission tunnel? Is the transmission tunnel considered part of the floor pan or could it be replaced with alternate sheet metal entirely? Assuming considered part of the floor pan, could non-original sheet metal be added to it while technically maintaining all of the original sheet metal? Would the associated trimming of the flat part of the floor pan be allowed? Would it matter if the trimmed portion of the floor pan were to became part of the tunnel such that it's all 'still there' and in the same general vicinity but not the same exact location and orientation?

Basically, how much of the 'tube frame' clause are letter of the rule requirements, and how much of it is it open to individual interpretation of the spirit/intent of the gray areas from any of various potential people involved that could vary from one interpreter, applicant, and/or season to the next? If more the latter, are any of the potential people with the power to make that call affiliated with competing teams, such that there could be a conflict of interest (or even just unintentional bias) in said case-by-case interpretation?

Driven5
Driven5 UberDork
2/17/22 1:08 p.m.
iansane said:
birdmayne said:

Any PNW locals who want to get in on this? I'd be game to join a team.

Yes. Yes I would.

That depends... Are we talking about the kind of team that would have me as a member?

RRLChris
RRLChris None
2/17/22 5:08 p.m.

This is Chris, one of the RRL partners. Thanks to all for the engagement and the great comments/questions! How and why did we choose to go down the slippery slope of starting a whole new endurance racing series when so many other great ones exist out there? It all boils down to the fact that we love to race, and in the PNW there aren't many options for endurance racers. The unfortunate reality is we grew out of the series we raced in. We found ourselves in a situation where our team was no longer focused on racing, and instead we became focused on running a lap time. We also knew there were several teams throughout all racing classes in a similar situation. The reality is we, and others, have been encouraged by the racing series to race somewhere else. Unfortunately, in the PNW there is nowhere else to go. WRL would be a natural next step for our team, but they don't race up here. We knew no one else would take on this endeavor so we (Adam, Tom, and I) collectively agreed to take it on. 

Tom, Adam, and I have endurance raced together for years and we love it. We have a lot of experience running motorsports events through Tom's Turn2 Motorsports business with a lot of infrastructure already in place. Our goal is to be as inclusive as possible, which is why the car classing rules are so basic. From our racing experience we feel the emphasis on tire width and fuel capacity will allow cars to be competitive within their class without a complex set of rules. We also worked with several established teams to get feedback on rules. After giving it a lot of thought and getting great feedback from other established racers this is what we came up with.

Running the Hankook RS-4 was a no brainer. Having a spec tire with our simple rules helps to level the playing field, and the tire itself is an endurance champion. They run out of performance before they cord or chunk, so if you have to limp them to the finish in a long race rather than pit you have that option. They're also affordable. That combined with their longevity ends up being a significant discount for teams. Because we wanted to run the RS-4, the next logical thing to do was contact Danny at Hankook Motorsports. Danny has a long history of serving the racing community well, and most importantly, he always has tire stock on hand. Ensuring our race teams could access tires easily at a great price was a big deal for us, so that is how our involvement with Hankook Motorsports began. 

Starting a brand new racing series is certainly a challenging endeavor. We felt providing the racing community with a different endurance racing option and experience in the PNW would be good for all that love the sport, including us. With booked race tracks and sold out races for many racing organizations throughout the country, we believed our presence could help facilitate growth of the sport we love while giving racers more options. That's why we did this in a nutshell. Given there is a learning curve with everything new, we will continuously be learning and growing with a mindset to provide a welcoming and straight forward racing experience. We are different because we will reward great driving and well prepared race cars designed to maximize their potential within our rules. We will reward podium finishers in each class with future race credit and will have a season points championship. Points champions in each class will win a $2,500 cash prize. 

Thanks to everyone who took the time to read this and I look forward to seeing you out at the track. If you have any questions at all about the RRL, please ask. I will keep an eye on this forum and respond. Also, feel free to email me at chris@revolutionraceleague.com. I am typically quick to respond and more than happy to chat on the phone as well. Our upcoming race at Portland is a double points race so get registered! 

RRLChris
RRLChris New Reader
2/17/22 5:21 p.m.
Driven5 said:
iansane said:
birdmayne said:

Any PNW locals who want to get in on this? I'd be game to join a team.

Yes. Yes I would.

That depends... Are we talking about the kind of team that would have me as a member?

Another option for drivers is to do an arrive and drive program. Hank at AAF is as good as they come. It's definitely worth the phone call.

https://advancedautofab.com/arrive-and-drive/

Javelin
Javelin GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
2/17/22 5:26 p.m.

In reply to RRLChris :

Your event is still not showing on PIR's calendar, though many other events on that weekend are:

https://portlandraceway.com/?/events/calendar

RRLChris
RRLChris New Reader
2/17/22 6:47 p.m.
Javelin said:

In reply to RRLChris :

Your event is still not showing on PIR's calendar, though many other events on that weekens are:

https://portlandraceway.com/?/events/calendar

I know, it's frustrating! We've been working with Nikki at the track for months. If you call her she will verify our event. She has been super busy, especially with NASCAR coming this year. This week she asked that we provide a write up of our event to include on the calendar. We provided this a few days ago so I anticipate it will be updated very soon. The events on the calendar now, apart from evening drags, are autocross events that don't involve the actual racetrack.

The NASCAR event made it a real challenge to get an event at Portland this year. We wanted an April date. A couple groups were pushed from June to April because of NASCAR so this is what we were able to get. The reality is March and April are pretty similar and a coin flip for good weather. We raced last year  at the end of April in the worst rain ever.....I'd take one of the last few February days over that any day.

I'm glad you brought up the schedule. Scheduling is one of the most challenging things we've encountered and didn't foresee. All of the tracks are BOOKED! Pacific is about the hardest to get into right now. We have been in communication with Spokane for months and are really excited that track will get back in action. We've also been in communication with Thunderhill, Laguna, and Area 27....adding those venues in 2023 is something we anticipate. 

AClockworkGarage
AClockworkGarage Dork
2/18/22 3:07 a.m.

I've got a running driving no title car that would fit into class C quite nicely, if anyone in Tacoma area wants to form a team.

 

Of just buy it off me for... very cheap.

iansane
iansane Dork
2/18/22 10:55 a.m.
Driven5 said:
iansane said:
birdmayne said:

Any PNW locals who want to get in on this? I'd be game to join a team.

Yes. Yes I would.

That depends... Are we talking about the kind of team that would have me as a member?

Do you like to go reasonably fast? For a long period of time? Consecutively? I think that's pretty much all the requirements.

Driven5
Driven5 UberDork
2/18/22 1:18 p.m.

In reply to AClockworkGarage :

Do tell...

 

In reply to iansane :

Setting the bar that low sounds like the first in a long series of bad decisions. devil

iansane
iansane Dork
2/18/22 1:38 p.m.
Driven5 said:

In reply to iansane :

Setting the bar that low sounds like the first in a long series of bad decisions. devil

Have you seen my driveway? I'm full of bad decisions.

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