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kb58 UltraDork
3/22/23 10:41 p.m.

Yeah, about the thumbs down on SxS... and meanwhile, in Europe, it's a thing. Granted that I may be confusing the exact vehicles, but they look very similar to what's successfully being run over there, and they aren't tipping over. Very well produced video on hillclimbs, and there are several SxS-type cars in the mix. Not really off-topic because if they run successfully over there, why can't they run autocross here?


dps214 SuperDork
3/23/23 12:12 a.m.

I browsed the video some and didn't see any SxS but did see several crosskart type things. Not remotely the same vehicle (by basic definition even...can't be a side by side if there's only one seat). They're basically the "SxS designed and built by adults for the specific purpose of racing" that I referenced and would be great if they existed here. Well, they do exist here but at 2-5x the cost of the most expensive SxS.

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
3/23/23 8:48 a.m.

From what little I have seen of crosskarts, they seem pretty stable but keep a few spare chains per event.  At the table smooth RXNC in 2021 someone brought a couple to rent out, if there hadn't been a dirtbike event across the way to get spare parts from, neither would have finished the weekend.  And technically neither one did even with spare parts.

ojannen HalfDork
3/23/23 11:44 a.m.

I am curious why there isn't a business case for a crosskart that cost $15-25K that is big enough for 6'6" americans (cough im fat cough).  They all cost $100K and are setup for European racing drivers who blow away in a light breeze.  Are they that expensive to build?  I can have fun with 25hp instead of 200hp if I can fit in the vehicle.

On a somewhat related note, what is stopping some old formula car from being retrofitted with longer travel suspension?  There are a ton of old Formula Vees and Formula Fords floating around.  Is it impossible or just not worth it?

Tom1200 UberDork
3/23/23 12:30 p.m.

In reply to ojannen :

Formula Vees will off road just fine as they are; there's a surprising amount of suspension travel. Basically they'd suffice for rallycross. Vees tend to be built like tanks, an early car (non zero roll suspension) could be easily  modified.

Formula Fords simply aren't that beefy.

nocones GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
3/23/23 12:48 p.m.

In reply to ojannen :

I'm not sure either.   Seems something that is F500ish with real suspension could be done in that range and be used for Autox and W2W. 

The rush SR is close but it looks like the cost has grown from $27k to $40k

Lof8 - Andy
Lof8 - Andy GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
3/23/23 1:40 p.m.

I missed that this conversation veered to SXSs in rallyx for a bit.  I'll add my quick 2 cents - a stock SXS is fairly dangerous in rallyx and just asking for a rollover, but a properly set up SxS, lowered, wider track, and fat sway bars is a very potent weapon.  I've done a lot of rallyx in a wide variety of vehicles.  My YXZ is the most fun and fastest one I've experienced or seen in action.  I've heard rumors they might be allowed at Nationals this year and I'm strongly considering it, because I have a feeling the class won't be around long.

A crosskart showed up at a rallyx at the Firm a couple of years ago.  I beat him by a large margin.  As far as I know, they're all 2wd and have far less traction than my SxS.  A 4wd crosskart would be rad, but I don't believe I've ever seen one.

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
3/29/23 3:03 p.m.

Have we discussed sites and event insurance? Those seem to be the two biggest issues facing autocrossing today. 

camopaint0707 New Reader
3/29/23 3:21 p.m.

In reply to David S. Wallens :

Not really, but since KK insures nearly all grassroot motorsports in America you'd think they'd have a reasonable policy rate/plan.  10 million seems to the standard coverage rate as well.

Duke MegaDork
3/29/23 5:33 p.m.
David S. Wallens said:

Have we discussed sites and event insurance? Those seem to be the two biggest issues facing autocrossing today. 


I have one feasible, affordable venue.  It's not great, but it's in an excellent location.  If I lose it, my program is dead.

Plus my insurance costs came close to doubling this year, because K&K had to switch to a different carrier (in our area, anyway).

We sell out nearly every event (100 car cap), so the demand is there.  But the infrastructure just isn't very robust at all.


David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
3/30/23 9:37 a.m.

In reply to Duke :

And your situation seems common: plenty of customers but, like you said, issues regarding infrastructure. 

freetors Reader
3/30/23 10:45 a.m.

I feel this thread. Last couple events I've been to have been pretty meh. I realized at an event last weekend that I just wasn't having fun autocrossing anymore, even during the driving portion. I've just kind of gotten to the point that if I'm not turning in really good times then I'm just getting frustrated. And add this point it's really hard for me to get faster without way more seat time and way more money spent. I'm at the point in my life right now where spending an entire day standing around just isn't that appealing any more.

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