Robert Bowen
Robert Bowen Editor
11/3/20 10:42 a.m.

In the heady tuner-culture days of the late 1990s, the car to have was the Acura Integra. This little coupe—and, rarely, sedan—was light, had double-wishbone suspension at both ends, and sported a sweetheart of a free-revving B-series engine coupled with a slick-shifting five-speed transmission. 

It wasn’t fast in a straight line—although later Type R Integras could click off sub-7-second zero-to-60 …

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GTwannaB
GTwannaB GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
11/3/20 8:09 p.m.

All reviews at the time were great and every boy racer claims the steering is the worst ever designed. Knowing that the steering is 'unique'... If you are not 16 and only do a mild drop or no drop on a type S, are thes3 still nice to drive? Sway bars, konis, good tires = good to go for fun street car?

red_stapler
red_stapler SuperDork
11/13/20 8:31 a.m.

These are the B13 SE-R of their era.  An outstanding engine forced to live in the worst chassis.

bobzilla
bobzilla MegaDork
11/13/20 8:38 a.m.
red_stapler said:

These are the B13 SE-R of their era.  An outstanding engine forced to live in the worst chassis.

agreed. There's a reason Real Time went back to the Integra for one more year until they TSX came along. The chassis is .... a poor choice. The engine/trans are good. 

RaabTheSaab
RaabTheSaab New Reader
11/13/20 9:06 a.m.

I DD an EM2 civic which is basically the same chassis. Forums (not this one) love to deride the d17 as not being a "real" D-series, but the chassis is way more offensive. And, yes, I've driven Hondas for years. No, I don't think double wishbones are the second coming. Yes, these are a very bad version of a MacStrut.  

DirtyBird222
DirtyBird222 PowerDork
2/6/22 7:41 p.m.

I mean the EP3 MacStrut is a giant turd too. Honda was like "we made the S2000, the peasant spec cars can suffice with what they have"

N7Prime
N7Prime Reader
2/6/22 10:25 p.m.

In reply to DirtyBird222 :

But people over the pond love the EP3 Type R. I don't get the hate since it's the same suspension design as the US EP3 Si

CyberEric
CyberEric Dork
2/7/22 12:23 p.m.

Honda people in the US don't seem to like anything that doesn't have wishbooooooooooones. (Did someone say wishbones!?) Except the new Type R. Never mind that it has struts and is an amazing chassis by all accounts.
 

My guess is if we got the EP3 type R here, people would be singing a different tune much like across the Atlantic. The EP3 Si seems to be getting more love now than when it came out, when it was HATED.

Run_Away
Run_Away GRM+ Memberand Dork
2/7/22 12:40 p.m.

https://kktse.github.io/jekyll/update/2021/02/19/rsx-suspension-longitudinal-antis.html

 

Some interesting reading on the RSX suspension.

 

I heard the stock geometry really doesn't like to be lowered, and the Real Time Racing RSX basically used the Colin Chapman method of making it work by not allowing it to move.

Opti
Opti Dork
2/7/22 2:21 p.m.

DC5 Type S vs EP3 Si?

DirtyBird222
DirtyBird222 PowerDork
2/7/22 4:17 p.m.
Opti said:

DC5 Type S vs EP3 Si?

Stock vs. Stock - RSX all day due to the better version of the K20A. 

EP3CivicSi
EP3CivicSi New Reader
2/7/22 5:30 p.m.

The suspension pick up points, bushing locations, controls, are almost all the same. The front lower ball joints and steering tie rods are bigger in the RSX but everything is interchangeable and you can use OEM parts to get everything to fit. I am running front aluminum DC5 Mugen LCA with ball joint extenders to help the roll center problems when lowering. Even then I'm only lowered about 1" from stock. A great thought out video on DC5/EP3 suspension issues is this absolute classic from MotoIQ linked here EP3 Suspension why it sucks and how to fix it

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
2/7/22 8:07 p.m.
CyberEric said:

Honda people in the US don't seem to like anything that doesn't have wishbooooooooooones. (Did someone say wishbones!?)

Honda only went to wishbones so they could make the beltline lower, same reason the Civics had torsion bars in the front suspension.  The camber curve of the final wishbone era Civics and Accords was very similar to a strut suspension's camber curve, because it also results in a nice stable roll center.

When beltlines began getting higher, Honda saw no need to continue with the production expense, space expense, weight, and NVH issues of double wishbones since their only benefit was now irrelevant.

 

CyberEric
CyberEric Dork
2/8/22 9:13 a.m.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

Don't tell me that Pete! Wishbones or NOTHING! devil
 

Whenever I see EP3s now, they are often in RPF1s and look great! I'm gonna watch this video and go buy one and make it handle and then put a WSHBNOS on the license plate to be  a troll. Not really.

DirtyBird222
DirtyBird222 PowerDork
2/8/22 10:27 a.m.
EP3CivicSi said:

The suspension pick up points, bushing locations, controls, are almost all the same. The front lower ball joints and steering tie rods are bigger in the RSX but everything is interchangeable and you can use OEM parts to get everything to fit. I am running front aluminum DC5 Mugen LCA with ball joint extenders to help the roll center problems when lowering. Even then I'm only lowered about 1" from stock. A great thought out video on DC5/EP3 suspension issues is this absolute classic from MotoIQ linked here EP3 Suspension why it sucks and how to fix it

There's a great podcast that I'm having trouble tracking down; but, they interviewed the guys from Honed Developments about Honda's transition from wishbones to struts and how each works, how to fix the roll center when lowering, etc. I'll try to track that down after work today. I thought I knew a lot about Honda suspension tuning, I realized I was operating at an elementary level after listening to those guys. 

Aaron_King
Aaron_King GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
2/8/22 10:42 a.m.

My only experience with the RSX was driving one all day at Mid Ohio for their one day High Performance class.  They were all Type S cars with wide rubber and no ABS.  All I can say was that it was fun and I learned a lot.

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