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ClemSparks
ClemSparks UltimaDork
8/17/21 6:51 p.m.
ddavidv said:

Hobo Freight

Lol

ddavidv
ddavidv UltimaDork
8/18/21 6:52 a.m.
octavious said:

In reply to ddavidv :

Are both colors on the BMW topside paint? Did you add a hardner? And what did you thin it with? 

Both colors were Brightside, one quart each.

No hardener.

Used their thinner, though I doubt it was anything special I couldn't have picked up at True Value.

WonkoTheSane
WonkoTheSane GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
8/18/21 12:37 p.m.
LeftLaneLoser said:
WonkoTheSane said:

My rolled on impliment paint job seems to be holding up well.. I should probably wax it before winter...  All in cost was around $110 after some fresh sandpaper and two tubes of JB Plastic Weld to fix the front bumper.

I have been keenly interested in doing this. So you just buy old tractor paint, thin it down, and use a roller? And it self levels?

Which nap roller? How many layers? Did you clearcoat? I have also heard about using marine paint. Anyone have experience with that?

Sorry,I missed this reply!  Yep, you've got it.  Thin it down until it's about the consistency of milk.  I gave the amounts that I mixed up in the link.  It self levels very nicely.

I used foam rollers (the 4" size I think) as well as a few foam brushes from the local hardware store.  No clear coat, as this stuff is supposed to be single stage.   I originally tried using "finest finish" woven rollers, but that didn't work as well. 

I have no idea if you can clear afterwards, but I don't think I'd want to risk rolling on a clear.  There's definitely some texture with the way that I did it, and for the time vs. effort outlay, I'm happy, but it certainly falls into the category of "good enough," not "great."

No idea about Marine paint, but it can't be that much different than tractor enamel, can it?

ebelements
ebelements Reader
8/18/21 3:02 p.m.

I've painted a few cars with rustoleum—the only way I'd recommend the option is if the car is SO ugly or SO mismatched that you can't stand it. You can thin it some with Penetrol, and it sprays great, even with an awful gun and no experience. It does, however, take eons to dry without any added hardener. Keep in mind my experience is with satin and flat paints.

As for durability, it isn't bad, but after a year or two outside it chalks up like the dickens. Hard to complain though, you'll spend more on masking tape than paint.

Oh, and one last thing—not sure it's to be taken as gospel, but what I've read, once you go with rustoleum, repainting with anything else is probably not going to work out unless you strip the car.

CrustyRedXpress
CrustyRedXpress GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
8/18/21 6:25 p.m.

I did my CRX Challenge car with thinned out Rustoleum and a roller, following the "50$ paint job" directions. 

It looked ok but took for-ev-er! Great for the challenge but I'm beg/borrowing/stealing a paint gun and compressor next time. 

Lots of people have done roll-on paint jobs. Very few choose to do it again.

Dusterbd13-michael
Dusterbd13-michael MegaDork
8/18/21 6:49 p.m.

The hardener in the paint is what keeps it from chalking, helps it dry quicker, and gives it better durability. That's the key to a Rust-Oleum paint job being decent.

ClemSparks
ClemSparks UltimaDork
8/19/21 2:53 p.m.
Dusterbd13-michael said:

The hardener in the paint is what keeps it from chalking, helps it dry quicker, and gives it better durability. That's the key to a Rust-Oleum paint job being decent.

This is good info and interesting.

I hope this holds true for Rustoleum. 

I feel like the ag paint (which was NOT rustoleum) I used on my trailer did chalk up even with the use of hardener.  The good news is that I really don't care too much on the trailer.  I'd be miffed if I had put that much effort into a car paint job and it deteriorated like that...so I'm gun shy.

Years ago I did use Rustoleum (withOUT hardener) and can confirm it doesn't last too long on the hood of a car.

Dusterbd13-michael
Dusterbd13-michael MegaDork
8/19/21 4:08 p.m.

this car was shot in rustoleum hunter green in 2018. 50/50 paint thinner/rustoleum,  splashed in a little tractor supply hardener. Shot through a 9.99 harbor freight gun in my gravel driveway. Wetsanded and buffed. Its dirty from last event and driving in rain and sitting outside. 

Since, its been waxed, usuallyonce or twicea year. Usually Lives under a carport and cheap cover when not in use. Has had all sorts of fluids Nd solvents spilled on it. Raced hard, driven in all weathers, towed to florida, Virginia, and back repeatedly. Beaten like it owes me money.

For a dd, i don't think id reccomend rustoleum for a daily driver, or a show car. But, for a good looking race car or occasional toy, id do it again.

 

Wait, i did. I had my daily done same way in rustoleum sail blue, never waxed, barely washed, bever covered. Two years or so in, it started to fade a little, but came back enough for a good concourse showing after i sold it to justjim.

ClemSparks
ClemSparks UltimaDork
8/19/21 9:52 p.m.

Can't argue with that! 

(in case my previous post came across as though I was trying to)

Dusterbd13-michael
Dusterbd13-michael MegaDork
8/20/21 5:43 a.m.

In reply to ClemSparks :

Nah. Just wanted to throw in some real world experience and pictures. Seemed like a good idea. 

Chris_V
Chris_V UberDork
8/20/21 7:59 a.m.

You can get good results at Maaco (or any of these cheap paint solutions), if you do good prep work before hand. Prep is almost all the labor cost in a high quality paint job (true, the materials themselves are more expensive: Real urethanes rather than the synthetic enamels with urethane catalysts that Maaco uses), so if you're careful, you can get a good job for cheap with Maaco and your work. (You may not go, but others reading this might, and this will help get the best job possible).

A good shop will often have to go over the car anyway, so you won't save too much by doing work yourself, unless you are confident enough in your prep work just to have them spray over it... But there are still steps you can take to save some labor and time.

Remove as much trim as is possible. Removing trim means 1) not having tape lines, and 2) someone else isn't responsible for loss or damage. It also means that the prep work can be done right under where the trim was, for a higher quality finish job (and edges around trim is where jobs usually fall down when economizing. Lack of sanding right next to trim can cause paint to peel later). If you're changing color, also remove door panels and carpet edge trim in the door jambs. Do a thorough job of cleaning the jambs (even if you're not changing color. This keeps dirt from coming back out into the new paint. A good shop will do it, but it's labor, and you can save time there.) On the same lines, clean the engine compartment thoroughly. Get a good degreaser/wax remover, and go over the whole car. Especially the door jambs, as years of Armor All can accumulate and cause problems (Armor All and the like are silicone sealants. Paint doesn't stick to silicone, and usually has serious reaction problems to even a drop of the stuff...).

If you are doing the engine compartment, degrease everything, and pull back as much wiring as you can, or completely mask everything (an easy trick is to use aluminum foil to wrap intricate bits...)

These are basics that can save the paint shop a bit of time and hassle. It may not save much money, but the job will be better, which ends up the same thing. If you want to go farther (or go to Maaco), you can do much of the sanding yourself. On areas where no bodywork is necessary, get a sanding block and 320 grit wet-or-dry sandpaper, of good quality (3M or Mirka Gold). Carefully wet sand the body with the block (taking care around edges, so as not to sand through) until all trace of gloss is gone, and you have a nice, even, dull finish, getting as close to the factory primer level as you dare (remember, electrostatically applied, baked alkyd enamel like the factory uses is the absolute best substrate for new paint there is... bare metal requires serious chemicals to make it so that airborne applied paint sticks and doesn't have corrosion problems later. And NO "baked" paint afterward is truly baked like the factory paint is. For one, when painting at the factory, there are no glass, trim, or interior parts installed to be damaged by high temps.) Sand in linear motions, but alternate directions to keep the sanding even and level. In the jambs (if painting them) use the 320 by hand in as much as you can reach easily. Then get 3M Scotch Brite pads (the red ones) and go after them again (the Scotch Brite gets into all the crevasses regular sandpaper can't). Use the Scotch Brite on the body crevasses that are hard to reach with sandpaper (especially around edges of panels).

Any areas where bodywork is necessary (door dings, minor dents) need to be hit quickly with 80 grit paper. Door dings need to be shown up so they can be attended to (if you want, you can do the work yourself with a high quality filler. I use USC's BaseCoat/ClearCoat, as it spreads smoothly in very thin layers, is easy to work, extremely easy to sand, and doesn't stain through the top coats. It is also light and durable (I had a customer get hit in the same spot that I had done serious bodywork on and the filler that was there not only didn't crack, it didn't separate from the body surface)). If you are going to be doing the bodywork (say before going to Maaco) try to always hammer and dolly out most of the dent, so the filler is only a skim coat to fill the minor hammer ripples left. Filler is better when thinner (anything under an eighth inch should last a lifetime). And again, try NOT to remove factory paint if at all possible, because filler sticks better to paint than to metal, and there is little chance of trapping water or corrosion that way. Just scuff it well with 80 grit (don't use 36 or 40 grit, as it tends to leave scratches that show up later after the paint and primer shrink up...) before applying. Apply filler at the exact level you need it at, so to reduce sanding later. Feather well to the outside of the dent. Use a long board or longer block sander to make sure it's even and level (waves are for beaches...).

On flexible parts, you first need to clean and degrease them (even and especially new parts). Then the Scotch Brite pad I talked about before is gone over thoroughly to scuff it up. Then use a fog coat of the Sand Free to open the pores of the urethane, and a flexible urethane primer is applied. When done properly, the primer is thus locked to the urethane. Scuff the primer completely (after proper cure... again, I always give 24 hrs). Then the part is ready to apply paint. If using a urethane base coat/clear coat paint system, the base coat goes on as normal, then the clear gets a flexible additive added. IF using a single stage paint (no clear) the flexible additive is put directly into the color (and use the same paint as for the rest of the car. the flex additive won't negatively affect the paint on the metal bits...)

You can get good primer results on bodywork or edges that have been sanded to metal with Krylon sandable primer, believe it or not. Just spray a couple light coats, let dry thoroughly (24 hours is best), sand lightly with 320, then spray it lightly again to level it out. Major primer areas should be shot with a catalyzed urethane primer, like PPG K200 (or the flexible version for urethane bumpers). Again, let cure completely (24 hours is best, even a couple days is good). Block sand wet with 320 before taking it to the paint shop. A good trick to make sure the surface is level is to lightly spray a spray can of color (like Krylon flat black) over the primed areas, letting it dry, then hitting it with the sanding block. This guide coat will show up imperfections that can be attended to, either by more sanding, or more bodywork if necessary.

After all is completed, clean completely again with a wax and grease remover.

I noticed I didn't say anything about masking and taping... ALWAYS use a good masking tape. Cheap tape is no savings ever. 3M or American Performance automotive masking tape is all you want to use. If masking needs to be done, take your time (this is why you remove the trim... so making perfect edges isn't as critical, and there are more "natural" places to mask to...)

If you do go to Maaco after this, get their catalyzed paint (otherwise it will NEVER get repainted without completely stripping everything....), and if you go metallic or pearl, definitely get the clear topcoats (clearcoat is merely un-pigmented paint, regardless of who does it). If you go solid colors, clear isn't necessary. Just have them put an extra coat on it.
After you get it home, let it cure for a couple days to a week. Then, hit it with 1000 grit wet sandpaper until all "orange peel" and dirt nibs are gone (be very careful of edges. In fact, stay a quarter inch or so away from the edges to start with). Hit it lightly after that with 2000 grit. Then either a pro detailing shop OR even you can use rubbing compound (like 3M Perfect It) and a foam pad, and polish the paint. Top it off with Meguire's #9 or similar on a foam finishing pad for a deep gloss. But do NOT wax or treat your paint otherwise for 90 days! Regardless of where it comes from. The paint needs this time to cure properly, and waxing will inhibit that, and could possibly damage the paint for the long term. (Top show car guys do it right off, but top show cars never stay the same color for decades, so longetivity isn't as important...). Do these steps right, and you'd be surprised that a Maaco paint job can look considerably better than factory... (of course, it's still cheapo synthetic enamel with urethane catalyst, but if you're on a serious budget, it can still look like you spent good money...)

frenchyd
frenchyd UltimaDork
8/20/21 8:09 a.m.

In reply to Chris_V :

Spraying is the easy part after all the prep work.  Watch a couple of  U tube video's. Practice on a big cardboard box.  Do not use modern two part paints though. You need serious protection, full suits and especially fresh air masks.  Lacquer is relatively benign. I use a good 3M mask and wear older clothes.  If you buy Lacquer paint it will dry so fast that you can take a brief break  and go back to fix mistakes. Runs,  and  drips. Etc. Can be sanded smooth. Just use a sanding block with 320 sand paper and try to stay flat on the run or drip.  
    Mix 2 parts of lacquer thinner to one part of lacquer. Don't worry if it doesn't cover in the first coat. Lacquer is all about thin,  even coats. 
   You may need as many as 3 passes for complete coverage.   Once you achieve that go to 3 parts of lacquer thinner to one part of paint. Next go to 4-5 then just fill your gun with lacquer thinner. ( basically you're just washing your gun, but you're also slightly  leveling the finish and helping give it depth). 
     Now you can be satisfied with your finish. Or if you really want an award winning paint job. The next day color wet sand it. I start at 600, turn everything satin, and go over the finish to at least 3000 grit by grit.  Then rubbing compound, both regular and fine,  followed  by polishing compound, then 3 layers of paste wax.  
       The last bit is what Rolls Royce did to their paint jobs.  The results  are only worth the time if you intend to keep your car the rest of your life. 47 years and counting for me.  I won best of show with other identical MG's and best paint job for several years 

     That by the way was my first real paint job.  But I was constantly fixing mistakes. Runs and drips galore.  I know I dragged a hose across a wet coat and a couple of times touched  it with a careless elbow or T shirt.  
The more cars I painted the fewer mistakes but they are always fixable with Lacquer.  Did you know that Rolls Royce brush painted all their cars well into the 1930's?  Yeh,  Lacquer still.  

pres589 (djronnebaum)
pres589 (djronnebaum) UltimaDork
8/20/21 8:26 a.m.

Will Tractor Supply tint paint or are you stuck with the colors on the shelf?  It seems like they might be a good path to get better paint onto a car for not a lot of money.  Plus they list a clear for something like $45 a gallon which seems like a great way to improve the end result.

 

Chris_V
Chris_V UberDork
8/20/21 10:04 a.m.
frenchyd said:

In reply to Chris_V :

Spraying is the easy part after all the prep work.  Watch a couple of  U tube video's. Practice on a big cardboard box.  Do not use modern two part paints though. You need serious protection, full suits and especially fresh air masks.  Lacquer is relatively benign.

Urethane paints dry/cure by cross linking chemical components, and with an HVLP gun (and good cheap ones are at harbor freight) that puts very little into the atmosphere are MUCH safer to spray than lacquers. And modern water-borne urethane paints are even better. Lacquer drys/cures by evaporating the solvents and can't be sprayed well by HVLP equipment because the droplets are too big to lay down right. And those solvents are VERY bad for you and the environment. In fact, most places you can't even buy automotive lacquer anymore due to the environmental reasons (however, it's getting harder for the hobbyist to buy any automotive paints these days, though I bought my House of Kolor clear coats off Amazon... wink ). ALL I use is modern basecoat/clearcoat paints. So much easier to spray and fix. Especially if you are doing metallic or pearl paints. And spraying metallic or pearls is not an easy task as it's very easy to get tiger striping, mottling, or color mismatches if you spray a pass wetter or dryer than another pass. It really is an art form.

When I sprayed my MINI Cooper stripes and final clearcoat over all, there was almost zero overspray due to the HVLP gun and basically nothing going into the air. There are no fine, solvent borne particles to deal with.

Dusterbd13-michael
Dusterbd13-michael MegaDork
8/20/21 10:06 a.m.

In reply to pres589 (djronnebaum) :

The new line of tractor supply paint is crap. Iven with hardener. I was seriously pissed with my results trying to use it.

Valspar has a rustoleum equivalent that is tintable at lowes however. Was pretty impressed with its durability in brush form, haven't tried spray and hardener however. 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
8/20/21 10:41 a.m.

If you are doing a base/clear combo, make sure you practice with the clear even if you're comfortable with the color coats. It does have a different consistency. I didn't take this into account when painting the MG and I ended up with runs all over the place over a perfect base coat.

APEowner
APEowner GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
8/20/21 12:08 p.m.

Based on a combination of factors I've decided that I'm going to paint the #22 Miata using Rust-Oleum Satin Black and a roller.  Probably several rollers. 

Here's what led to my choice

  • The car is current ly really ugly and is a weird two-tone black and white
  • The car needs a bunch of bodywork that I have neither the time nor the inclination to fix
  • This car was due for a refresh before it was stolen and I haven't decided between doing that or building the car I bought from Anthony

Based on that I 'm looking for a quick and inexpensive way to make the car less ugly.  I do have the tools and skills to do the body and paintwork correctly but I don't enjoy any part of the process and I don't really have the facility.  My attached garage does not make a good paint booth.  I've done the plastic sheeting paint booth before and it's a lot of work, I've always gotten some over spray dust in the rest of the shop and the fumes permeate the entire building.  Since the entire building in this case includes where wife lives that's likely to be a significant problem.

So, roller it is.    I just got back from the Orange Box store and my total cost for materials so far is $59.17.  That includes a gallon of acetone most of which will go in stock and a roller frame which will, theoretically be usable for other projects.

My plan is to just thin a bit with acetone.  I know that's not the way to the $50.00 show car shine but the satin black won't ever shine and really my goal is "less ugly" and looks "not horrible from the stands".  Based on all the other things I've painted with Rust-Oleum I think that's achievable.

Here's the starting point..

Based on past experience, I'm unlikely to remember to take any in process pics but I'll post the after pics for everyone's edification and amusement.

 

 

frenchyd
frenchyd UltimaDork
8/20/21 12:24 p.m.

In reply to Chris_V :

I can walk into any big box store and grab a can of Lacquer thinner off the shelf.  You can also buy rattle cans of lacquer. You can go to good wood working stores and buy gallons of Lacquer for wood.  But yes I do have to buy automotive lacquer paint on line.   There are both cheap Lacquers and good  (expensive ) lacquers like Ditzler's.  I really like their double deep black. 
     
    You mention bigger droplets. Well, they will fall to ground faster than the finer droplets of your Two parts ( usually mixed with a form of cyanide  or Arsenic  as the hardener ( read the ingredients to confirm)To spray those two parts you are supposed to suit up and have fresh air supply along with the air pressure for the hose. ( in other Words don't breath any contaminated air). 
   While I like to spray outside in the middle of my driveway. ( less prep)  I put something down on the ground within a few feet  of the car. Careful  to spray on a calm day  and any paint falls to the ground  on that covering.  There a 3M dust mask N95 is all the protection I need.  I'm trying to remember how many cars I've painted, 4 MG's 3 Jaguars ( 4 when I do my XJS ) two Morris, 1 Corvette, a Lotus 11, the DeMar,     
     The only one I ever hard trouble with was Emron painted Corvette ( 2 part ). The instructions never said anything about the dangers,  just how good a two part was. Yes,  It was a good paint job.  But I was down for more than a week with  the repercussions  of spraying that stuff. For more than 10 years I couldn't go anywhere near a paint booth. Just the slightest whiff of fumes would have me wheezing and sick.  
When I spot touched stone  chips  on my Black Jack  almost 14 years later was the first time I painted since the Emron and that never affected me in the least. 

WonkoTheSane
WonkoTheSane GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
8/20/21 1:30 p.m.
APEowner said:

My plan is to just thin a bit with acetone. 

I haven't tried it, but I'd be careful about thinning with acetone.  I've heard that you run into problems because it evaporates so fast that your consistency will be changing throughout the job.

I used mineral spirits.  It will take a bit longer to cure, but if your acetone is causing problems, I'd look there.  And it should be less than $10 to try :)

Otherwise, sounds good.  Have fun!

WonkoTheSane
WonkoTheSane GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
8/20/21 1:32 p.m.
CrustyRedXpress said:

I did my CRX Challenge car with thinned out Rustoleum and a roller, following the "50$ paint job" directions. 

It looked ok but took for-ev-er! Great for the challenge but I'm beg/borrowing/stealing a paint gun and compressor next time. 

Lots of people have done roll-on paint jobs. Very few choose to do it again.

Huh, I had the opposite experience.  It's super fast (overall time invested) compared to properly prepping and shooting a car either with a HVLP or rattle-cans.  I'd totally do it again for a daily beater level car.

But I could see that if you're trying to get the same quality finish as you can by spraying.  I think it's a matter of what "good enough" means to you :)

APEowner
APEowner GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
8/20/21 4:07 p.m.
WonkoTheSane said:
APEowner said:

My plan is to just thin a bit with acetone. 

I haven't tried it, but I'd be careful about thinning with acetone.  I've heard that you run into problems because it evaporates so fast that your consistency will be changing throughout the job.

I used mineral spirits.  It will take a bit longer to cure, but if your acetone is causing problems, I'd look there.  And it should be less than $10 to try :)

Otherwise, sounds good.  Have fun!

That's an interesting point.  I hadn't thought of that.  I was thinking acetone only because that's what the can suggests for spraying.

During lunch I pulled the lights, door handles and misc. trim that I didn't want to try and cut in around.  I also popped some dents out of the left front fender and tugged the lower corners of the front bumper cover out so that I could secure the lower lip of the grill opening with some zip ties.

Total prep time 40 minutes.  Sure beats masking!

I do need to scuff the existing paint and wipe the car down.  I haven't decided if I want to hit it with the DA or just do over it with a Scotchbrite pad.  I'm concerned that if I use the DA I'll start trying to fix stuff and end up going down the road I'm trying to avoid.

frenchyd
frenchyd UltimaDork
8/20/21 6:42 p.m.
WonkoTheSane said:
APEowner said:

My plan is to just thin a bit with acetone. 

I haven't tried it, but I'd be careful about thinning with acetone.  I've heard that you run into problems because it evaporates so fast that your consistency will be changing throughout the job.

I used mineral spirits.  It will take a bit longer to cure, but if your acetone is causing problems, I'd look there.  And it should be less than $10 to try :)

Otherwise, sounds good.  Have fun!

I agree that acetone evaporates wickedly fast.  But mineral spirits seems too slow. Try lacquer thinner. I suspect you might find it just right. I buy mine at Home Depot or Menards. 
 I do use acetone for cleaning guns and stuff I've  left dry too long.  Sometimes days later.  But use it outside!!  That stuff really gets to you.  

Chris_V
Chris_V UberDork
8/21/21 4:47 p.m.
frenchyd said:

In reply to Chris_V :

I can walk into any big box store and grab a can of Lacquer thinner off the shelf.  You can also buy rattle cans of lacquer. You can go to good wood working stores and buy gallons of Lacquer for wood.  But yes I do have to buy automotive lacquer paint on line.   There are both cheap Lacquers and good  (expensive ) lacquers like Ditzler's.  I really like their double deep black. 
     
    You mention bigger droplets. Well, they will fall to ground faster than the finer droplets of your Two parts ( usually mixed with a form of cyanide  or Arsenic  as the hardener ( read the ingredients to confirm)To spray those two parts you are supposed to suit up and have fresh air supply along with the air pressure for the hose. ( in other Words don't breath any contaminated air). 
   While I like to spray outside in the middle of my driveway. ( less prep)  I put something down on the ground within a few feet  of the car. Careful  to spray on a calm day  and any paint falls to the ground  on that covering.  There a 3M dust mask N95 is all the protection I need.  I'm trying to remember how many cars I've painted, 4 MG's 3 Jaguars ( 4 when I do my XJS ) two Morris, 1 Corvette, a Lotus 11, the DeMar,     
     The only one I ever hard trouble with was Emron painted Corvette ( 2 part ). The instructions never said anything about the dangers,  just how good a two part was. Yes,  It was a good paint job.  But I was down for more than a week with  the repercussions  of spraying that stuff. For more than 10 years I couldn't go anywhere near a paint booth. Just the slightest whiff of fumes would have me wheezing and sick.  
When I spot touched stone  chips  on my Black Jack  almost 14 years later was the first time I painted since the Emron and that never affected me in the least. 

First off, it's DuPont Imron, not Emron, and it's a special type of enamel that only DuPont makes. I've used it before in industrial use and fleet use. It stands up to just about any chemical you can throw at it, but it's not really a good choice for auto body paint. And yes, it can be quite toxic, especially if you are using a standard spray gun to paint with because half of what you are spraying ends up in the air around you and not on the car. Ditzler is PPG and I used to be an authorized distributor for their lines of automotive paints, from lacquers to enamels to urethanes. (the Ditzler acrylic lacquer used to be one of the cheaper paints available in their line. Now Ditzler basic black acrylic lacquer is over $600 a gallon IF you can find it. And many places won't allow you to spray it due to EPA regulations).

I've been doing automotive paint and bodywork for 40+ years (and painted hundreds of cars, in my pro paint booth back in the day and my garage at home), and know what the chemicals are, what the various manufacturers make, how to use them, and why you can't get some of them for regular automotive use, etc. The toluene in the lacquers have been bad juju for years. Some of the urethanes use hardeners AND reducers, some basecoats only use reducers, and some of the water borne urethanes are ready to spray right out of the can. I use a simple dual filter N95 respirator and never encountered any problems in those 40+ years of spraying automotive paints. Yes, the SataJet pro HVLP gun has a lot to do with that, as 90% of the paint makes it onto the car (and as a bonus, I can mix and use less paint to get the same coverage as a standard spray gun). Don't even get any odor out of the garage and into the house (which my wife is quite happy about)

Lacquer was great back in the day because it was easy to spray, easy to layer in candy jobs, and no matter what the crap was you got in, on, or around the paint, you could easily sand it and polish it out. BUT, being solvent borne, it also was susceptible to any solvents that came near it, like gasoline or brake fluid. Both of which will damage the hell out of a lacquer paint job. Cheap Maaco paint is made from Alkyd enamels and are quick to dry, but can't be recoated later without the possibility of lifting and crazing. Modern urethanes dry faster than lacquers, stand up to chemicals way better, are just as easy to sand and polish AND last longer with less upkeep. And no need for 20 coats of paint to get enough on there to not polish through but also end up with thick, inflexible, cracking and crazing paint that stands the risk of solvent popping in temperature extremes.

Last time I saw a rustoleum roller paint job done, it looked decent when it was sanded and polished, but if you nicked a spot on it, you could then peel it off in huge sheets, like plastidip.

APEowner
APEowner GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
8/21/21 8:43 p.m.

I scuffed the whole car with Scotchbrite, pushed out a few more dents and washed it. Tomorrow morning I'll paint it.

 

 

03Panther
03Panther UltraDork
8/21/21 10:07 p.m.
Chris_V said:

First off, it's DuPont Imron, not Emron,

.......

it can be quite toxic, especially if you are using a standard spray gun to paint with

I've been doing automotive paint and bodywork for 40+ years (and painted hundreds of cars, in my pro paint booth back in the day and my garage at home), and know what the chemicals are, what the various manufacturers make, how to use them, and why you can't get some of them for regular automotive use, etc. The toluene in the lacquers have been bad juju for years. Some of the urethanes use hardeners AND reducers, some basecoats only use reducers, and some of the water borne urethanes are ready to spray right out of the can. I use a simple dual filter N95 respirator and never encountered any problems in those 40+ years of spraying automotive paints. Yes, the SataJet pro HVLP gun has a lot to do with that, as 90% of the paint makes it onto the car (and as a bonus, I can mix and use less paint to get the same coverage as a standard spray gun). Don't even get any odor out of the garage and into the house (which my wife is quite happy about)

Lacquer was great back in the day because it was easy to spray, easy to layer in candy jobs, and no matter what the crap was you got in, on, or around the paint, you could easily sand it and polish it out. BUT, being solvent borne, it also was susceptible to any solvents that came near it, like gasoline or brake fluid. Both of which will damage the hell out of a lacquer paint job. Cheap Maaco paint is made from Alkyd enamels and are quick to dry, but can't be recoated later without the possibility of lifting and crazing. Modern urethanes dry faster than lacquers, stand up to chemicals way better, are just as easy to sand and polish AND last longer with less upkeep. And no need for 20 coats of paint to get enough on there to not polish through but also end up with thick, inflexible, cracking and crazing paint that stands the risk of solvent popping in temperature extremes.

Last time I saw a rustoleum roller paint job done, it looked decent when it was sanded and polished, but if you nicked a spot on it, you could then peel it off in huge sheets, like plastidip.

Now you've gone an done it!

I remember when "Imron" was hot, due to how tough it was. Knew guys that sprayed it, not caring how toxic it was. But back then I never heard of anyone that didn't know haw bad it was! Guess now I do...

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