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Tom1200
Tom1200 UberDork
9/22/22 3:38 p.m.
BuzzF5R said:

Does my 225 hp F5R roadster count?

I assume we are talking Cobra replica and not the Hennessey supercar; 225 HP in a 2200-2300 would make it a momentum car.

kevinatfms
kevinatfms GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
9/23/22 8:25 a.m.

I want to build a 2019+ Mitsubishi Mirage hatchback. 78hp and 2100lbs. Flat to the floor around every corner.

livinon2wheels
livinon2wheels GRM+ Memberand Reader
12/6/22 3:22 p.m.
kevinatfms said:

I want to build a 2019+ Mitsubishi Mirage hatchback. 78hp and 2100lbs. Flat to the floor around every corner.

thats the spirit...the less time you spend having to modulate the throttle the more your lap times represent making the most of your brakes and staying on the optimum line for your car. Driving momentum cars is so satisfying when you realize you are getting respectable lap times in spite of the lack of horsepower. A sure indicator that your driving is getting better, which is what this is all about for me anyway. It's why I do anything I enjoy...to enjoy it first but then also to have the satisfaction of gaining increased competence at the activity, whether its riding a motorcycle, driving a car, playing guitar...whatever. The satisfaction from self improvement...thats a biggie for me.

 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
12/6/22 4:06 p.m.

In reply to livinon2wheels :

Then you drive a car with a little more power and you discover a big hole in your skillset - managing traction for maximum acceleration and cornering. Simply having your foot pinned to the floor all the time is basically removing an entire aspect of vehicle control. You can still drive the high power car at the same power level as the low power level one - just don't put your foot down all the way - but if you want to go faster you need to improve your skills. As you said, if you don't have to modulate the throttle you're basically taking that out of the equation so you can concentrate on brakes and a line that conserves momentum. But add that back in and you might find your lines are no longer correct, and that braking is far more important, and that now you have to figure out how to deploy the power most effectively.

I've seen this in my coworkers. They do well managing a high grip, low power car but as soon as they have to deal with a high power car with the same chassis they struggle. It's not unusual for me to find myself at the track with multiple cars with the same suspension/tire/chassis setup but very different power levels, and there is a wider level of tools required to make the most of the high power cars. You still have all the same aspects of the slow cars, but there's more.

 

Tom1200
Tom1200 UberDork
12/6/22 6:16 p.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Well said but I will add this; in the Datsun if you go back to the throttle to early and to fast you will end up with speed scrubbing understeer.

Therein lies the problem; very often people driving extreme  momentum cars think they have them at the absolute limit when they're not. If you have the car at the absolute cornering limit you can't simply add throttle because there is not traction to do so.

Your point about driving styles for these cars is spot on. Very often you find yourself taking unorthodox lines because traveling a shorter distance on some corners is faster than the optimal line. My personal belief is that teaches you to think outside the box but what works for me probably doesn't work for 99% of the universe.  

Like you I frequently jump from 100hp to 600hp cars and there is definitely a polar opposite driving style.

My Formula 500 is way less work to drive fast then the Datsun.

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
12/6/22 6:57 p.m.

In reply to Tom1200 :

Too much throttle too early was a huge stumbling block for me when I tracked my RX-7.  I was 22 and had a lot to learn smiley  As you say, lots and lots of understeer.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
12/6/22 7:30 p.m.

The understeer problem still exists, although it can also turn into power oversteer fairly easily if you have the power for it :) The effects of the understeer are just less obvious if you have some blasting power - unless you're dealing with another driver with the same power/weight :)

I've probably posted this in this thread already, but my definition of a momentum car is one with a low power/grip ratio. It doesn't have to be low power, just have more grip than power. 

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
12/6/22 8:12 p.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Part of my problem was that maintenance throttle was WFO smiley

Tom1200
Tom1200 UberDork
12/6/22 8:14 p.m.
Keith Tanner said:

The understeer problem still exists, although it can also turn into power oversteer fairly easily if you have the power for it :) The effects of the understeer are just less obvious if you have some blasting power - unless you're dealing with another driver with the same power/weight :)

I've probably posted this in this thread already, but my definition of a momentum car is one with a low power/grip ratio. It doesn't have to be low power, just have more grip than power. 

I'd agree with both those statements. I've had more than one student with horsepower cars use the throttle to correct the driver induced understeer. It can be difficult getting someone to understand, while power slides are glorious fun they are not fast.

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