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Toyman01
Toyman01 MegaDork
8/7/17 7:49 p.m.

That makes the rule list pretty simple.

1/4 Scale.

1/4 Budget.

Single cylinder industrial engine.

Dusterbd13
Dusterbd13 UltimaDork
8/7/17 7:58 p.m.

Must have functional brakes and mimic a vintage race car.

Pretty simple.

Now to find fat tire bmx bike wheels....

Toyman01
Toyman01 MegaDork
8/7/17 8:11 p.m.

Are we going to track the budget like the Challenge cars. Fair market value for everything we already have on hand and receipts for everything bought?

Dusterbd13
Dusterbd13 UltimaDork
8/7/17 8:13 p.m.

In reply to Toyman01:

I would. Keep it honest. Ish.

Toyman01
Toyman01 MegaDork
8/7/17 8:24 p.m.

Done.

Now I'm wondering if the GRM staff has any input. It is their event we would be crashing.

Dusterbd13
Dusterbd13 UltimaDork
8/7/17 8:25 p.m.

Or a dirt lot and some extra cones.

This will definitely need to happen. Maybe not this year, as were 60 days or so to the challenge.

mazdeuce
mazdeuce MegaDork
8/7/17 8:30 p.m.

I might be able to play next year. I have the torque converter that didn't fit the rallykart and I still have the snowblower engine that my father in law gave me six or seven years ago that probably still doesn't run but did have compression the last I checked. I need to fix the welder.......get a few projects done....and see how you guys solve problems so I don't have to figure out this stuff myself.

pimpm3
pimpm3 SuperDork
8/7/17 9:03 p.m.

I say go with half budget. The cars are bigger than quarter scale... $500 is pushing it budget wise.

Kreb
Kreb GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
8/7/17 10:07 p.m.

Seems to me that if you don't have a pretty serious spec, what's to keep someone from simply showing up with a hopped up clone Kart with "vintage inspired" bodywork? One has to consider what key parameters will create some semblance of a level playing field. As I see it will be the motor, the cg, brakes and how much rubber you can put on the ground. Control those and you'll still have a lot of room for creativity, but the performance spread won't be a joke. Also - this should be the one challenge event that actually has w2w racing.

coexist
coexist Reader
8/8/17 1:09 a.m.

What era?

Toyman01
Toyman01 MegaDork
8/8/17 5:13 a.m.

In reply to coexist:

Pre WW2.

FlightService
FlightService MegaDork
8/8/17 6:31 a.m.

I like the frame work so far, but I think we need to firm up the rules a bit more.

fanfoy
fanfoy Dork
8/8/17 6:35 a.m.

Definetly firm up the rules.

Tire width and total weight limits would be a minimum.

Dusterbd13
Dusterbd13 UltimaDork
8/8/17 6:37 a.m.
Toyman01 wrote: In reply to coexist: Pre WW2.

That was the original intent. But I would not limit Builders creativity to that era

FlightService
FlightService MegaDork
8/8/17 6:45 a.m.

In reply to Dusterbd13:

meh, I disagree. If you leave it open, there is nothing that stops someone from showing up with a quarter scale midget or a out of competitive date race kart.

I think designs based on pre-1939 cars would allow for plenty of creativity. Not to mention it would give the Classic Motorsports side guys and reason to look our way.

FlightService
FlightService MegaDork
8/8/17 7:05 a.m.
volvoclearinghouse
volvoclearinghouse UltraDork
8/8/17 7:15 a.m.

Been lurking on this thread. I showed some pictures of these karts to Mrs. VCH and she loves 'em. The biggest little VCH is 3 years old and starting to get interested in cars. I think she'd love one of these to tool around the yard in.

The biggest hurdle I can't seem to get over mentally in building one of these is how to make the wheels, drive, and engine all...work. I have some vague theoretical knowledge of a chain drive, pulleys, and axle, etc but I have to confess, I have no idea how to make it work in practice. I mean, stupid stuff like, how does one mount the bearing? What bearing to use? What makes an "axle"? In my head, the easiest thing would be to have a solid shaft as an axle that both wheels fit onto and then drive either one or both wheels- make some sort of a "fixing" mechanism so either the left, right, or both wheels could be driven or freely rotate (so the kart could be pushed without being connected to the drive).

How does the sprocket locate on the axle, without moving side-to-side?

I'm just so used to a solid rear axle, like on a car...

I guess I need to see some pictures.

The steering and front end I can sort of figure out...trailer spindles are pretty easy to find.

RossD
RossD MegaDork
8/8/17 7:30 a.m.

Think less bespoke-parts, and more go-karts. http://azusaparts.com/

fanfoy
fanfoy Dork
8/8/17 7:50 a.m.

In reply to volvoclearinghouse:

Check out the build threads here and here and also here

They will clarify a lot of your questions. But there are a lot of different ways of doing it. For example, a lot of people here think that they are all 1WD, but a lot are 2WD with a lot of different differential ideas.

FlightService
FlightService MegaDork
8/8/17 8:52 a.m.

In reply to fanfoy:

one wheel drive was brought up as the cycle kart page stated they had to be 1wd

fanfoy
fanfoy Dork
8/8/17 9:28 a.m.

In reply to FlightService:

That was originally, but people have tried a bunch of different setups.

FlightService
FlightService MegaDork
8/8/17 11:26 a.m.

In reply to fanfoy:

Oh no, I think we are crossing wires here. I am saying the ONLY reason ANYONE here said anything about 1wd was because of the original guidelines. I don't think any of us would direct it that was on purpose for any other reason than the rules dictated it.

Driven5
Driven5 Dork
8/8/17 12:02 p.m.

In reply to FlightService:

My understanding is that, at least currently, there are no "rules" to "dictate" anything. Just a few loose guidelines, which are by no means the same as rules, as well as what is little more than a "gentleman's agreement" on the basic performance parameters. It's pretty much build whatever you want as long as it fits the look, feel, and spirit of the event.

I would think if GRM'ers need a more defined set of rules, with the intent of making it more of a true racing competition, then the rules should be written to ensure traditional cycle karts would remain competitive. So things like weight penalties for more powerful engines and whatnot. Make it not at all advantageous to go bigger and better, thus keeping it 'dual purpose' build friendly and preventing too much performance creep..

stroker
stroker UltraDork
8/8/17 12:14 p.m.

Make it an Exhibition class only. Otherwise some Type A Bob Costas will want to win at all costs.

Chadeux
Chadeux Dork
8/8/17 12:19 p.m.

Are you suggesting that a Cyclekart class with no rules would very quickly become a funny looking Formula SAE?

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