DD thoughts: best combination of HP and MPG?

In reply to STM317 :

Well, since electric cars don't use any gallons at all, I'm not sure we should include them. Technically , electric cars get zero miles per gallon.

Appleseed said:

In reply to STM317 :

Well, since electric car don't use any gallons at all, I'm not sure we should include them. Technically , electric cars get infinite miles per gallon.

FTFY

Cooter said:

Appleseed said:

In reply to STM317 :

Well, since electric car don't use any gallons at all, I'm not sure we should include them. Technically , electric cars get infinite miles per gallon.

FTFY

The EPA added a category for comparing EVs as someone mentioned on the bottom of page 1.  MPGe.  It compares the carbon use of what it requires to generate and transmit the electricity so you have a sorta benchmark to compare.

And yes, EVs trump ICEs on carbon use to drive.

Zero divided by a number is zero.

In reply to Appleseed :

best-kind-of-correct.jpg

In reply to Appleseed :

If you buy a gallon of gasoline and put it in a container in an electric car, no matter how for you drive it, it will never use that gas to propel it.

Appleseed said:

In reply to STM317 :

Well, since electric cars don't use any gallons at all, I'm not sure we should include them. Technically , electric cars get zero miles per gallon.

Sure. But mpg is ultimately a measure of energy efficiency. In this case, it's the distance traveled on the amount of energy in a single gallon of fuel. We can use a bunch of different units for energy in a gallon of gas, including kWh. If we play around with the units, we find that 1 gallon of gas has the same energy as  36kwh of electricity. So, mpge is supposed to be the measure of how far an EV can travel on the amount of energy equivalent to the energy in a gallon of gas.

Appleseed said:

Zero divided by a number is zero.

Yes, but it's miles divided by gallons.  In this case, yes miles and zero gallons.  

Zero divided by a number is zero, but a number divided by zero is infinity.  It's why your calculator says -E- when you try it.

Somebeach (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to irish44j (Forum Supporter) :

What year is your GTI and what transmission? Also does it take regular gas or have to put in premium? 
Those numbers look pretty good for a DD. 

2018. 6MT SE (so, with LSD and the bigger "R" brakes). 

I usually run regular, but occasionally do a tank of premium if I'm planning to do some spirited mountain driving or something. With the premium it feels more powerful for sure, as would be expected for a turbo car, but it the factory tune is fine with regular and it's not a huge dropoff. 

I think the "worst" MPGs I've evecr gotten on a full tank was around 27, but most of that tank was slogging around NY City in traffic, with liberal use of "pedal to the floor/full boost" and "brakes to the floor" as one needs to do if one is to keep with the flow of typical NYC drivers :)

STM317 said:

EVs shame all of these suggestions don't they?

Model 3 Performance AWD has 480hp and is rated at 113 mpge

Mach E AWD has 346hp and  90mpge

Bolt has 200hp and 120mpge

Ionic 5 AWD has 320hp and 98mpge

Polestar 2 Dual Motor has 408hp and 89mpge

 

These all have far lower maintenance and daily time requirements than most ICEs.

just out of curiosity, what do you mean by "daily time requirements?

Gas station visits? I know, they only take 15 seconds and it's always sunny and warm :) But you do lose that opportunity when you plug in every night.

The original post did specify ICE, though, so let's stick with that.

WRT to diesel "throttle response" - there's a definite difference between my 6.7 Cummins and my FIL's 5.9. His is only mildly breathed upon (just a tune of some description), mine is almost stock. But whatever the reason, his has a much snappier response. Doesn't bother me day to day because that's not what the big engine is for, but it's kinda fun when I have to drive his. They're both sticks so you do notice more than you might with a slushbox.

It's my understanding that the 6.7 wakes up considerably when you start deleting emissions components but, well, we all know how that's turned out for our hobby.

ProDarwin said:

Camry Hybrid is 208hp and rated at 53mpg highway

 

Ecoboost Mustang is rated at 32mpg highway and 330hp

Jetta GLI is 228hp and rated at 37mpg

Camry is 301hp/33hwy

Can we all just take a moment, pause, and reflect on the fact that a Camry makes 301 horsepower now?

P3PPY said:

ProDarwin said:

Camry Hybrid is 208hp and rated at 53mpg highway

 

Ecoboost Mustang is rated at 32mpg highway and 330hp

Jetta GLI is 228hp and rated at 37mpg

Camry is 301hp/33hwy

Can we all just take a moment, pause, and reflect on the fact that a Camry makes 301 horsepower now?

Gotta be able to blow the doors off a Miata at the traffic light or the natural order will be disturbed :)

Keith Tanner said:

Gas station visits? I know, they only take 15 seconds and it's always sunny and warm :) But you do lose that opportunity when you plug in every night.

If people have to stop daily for gas, they must have some long commutes. 

I totally plan to buy an EV (possibly for my next commuter. TBD). But the people who act like "hey, EV's are sooooo easy for everyone and way less hassle than ICE cars" are predominantly the suburban upper-middle-class sector who have the garages, infrastructure, and cash to make EV ownership relatively easy (and admittedly, I am in that group).  That said, my DD parks 30 ft. from my garage/house, so if I get an EV I'm going to have to run some kind of extension cord to it in order to charge at night (and then reel it up every morning at 530am, when it's never sunny and warm). So, that seems like more "daily time requirements" than my current vehicle. I'll figure it out, because I have the income (and property) to do so.  However, I think the "convenience" of EVs is extremely overstated for the majority of the populace who may not have a garage or a driveway.

but I digress, sorry to take it OT. 

P3PPY said:

ProDarwin said:

Camry Hybrid is 208hp and rated at 53mpg highway

 

Ecoboost Mustang is rated at 32mpg highway and 330hp

Jetta GLI is 228hp and rated at 37mpg

Camry is 301hp/33hwy

Can we all just take a moment, pause, and reflect on the fact that a Camry makes 301 horsepower now?

When I drive my Porsche, I reflect on the fact that any minivan or SUV (or Camry) made in the last decade can likely stomp it is stoplight drag race. Let's face it, there are affordable DD-type commuter cars these days that are fast, fun(ish) to drive, and still get good MPGs in a general sense, whether that be Golf, Civic, Corollas, Focus, etc.....

In reply to irish44j (Forum Supporter) :

Maybe not every day, but it is something you have to regularly and you can't skip it. Car guys don't see the problem but trust me, not having to go to the gas station is a major plus for a lot of EV owners. I had no idea how much my wife hated going to the gas station until she didn't have to. If you asked her what the #1 benefit of an EV was, that would probably be it. 

In your case, I'd put a charger on a post beside your parking spot. Running a big cord back and forth every day would get old. 

Keith Tanner said:

In reply to irish44j (Forum Supporter) :

Maybe not every day, but it is something you have to regularly and you can't skip it. Car guys don't see the problem but trust me, not having to go to the gas station is a major plus for a lot of EV owners. I had no idea how much my wife hated going to the gas station until she didn't have to. If you asked her what the #1 benefit of an EV was, that would probably be it. 

In your case, I'd put a charger on a post beside your parking spot. Running a big cord back and forth every day would get old. 

like I said, I'll figure it out when the time comes (I have most of my stock portfolio in EVs and EV charging infrastructure so I follow it closely). People like you and I can handle that kind of added expense. But for many people in this country (and many more in the rest of the world), the hassle of getting gas is probably a lot less than the hassle of getting EV infrastructure. Maybe that will change a decade from now (I expect it will). Incidentally, my wife dislikes getting gas (and usually sends me to fill up her car in the evening). And she'll probably get our first EV since most of her driving is local (and she actually parks in the driveway). 

Ironically, my HOA would probably say "put your charge station in your 2-car garage, you can't put a post on the street." But of course, my garage is full of old project cars at all times lol. 

Besides, don't you EV guys still have to go to the gas station to use the "Squeegee?" ;)

We once found a charging station with a squeegee and there was much excitement :) Seriously.

The problem with EVs is that while their lifetime costs may be lower, they have higher up front costs. Such as possibly having to do something to add charging capability where you park, and a higher initial purchase price. People are not wired to evaluate that well.

And don't think I'm bagging on electric. Cause I'm not.  I like them.

In reply to Appleseed :

I don't think it came across that way at all. 

dps214 said:

Anything with a big V8 and appropriate gearing. C8 Corvette 495hp and 27mpg highway, and that's down a couple from the c7. Of course it's a different story whether you can restrain yourself enough to actually accomplish those numbers in the real world. My cayman (325hp) is rated 30mpg highway but I've never managed to make a trip average higher than 25mpg because I'm just not that responsible.

One note on this based on my experience with the LS motors. They basically work on a gallon per hour basis. So woofling along the interstate at 75 mph means great economy (within 10% of a turbo Miata, based on a 2000 mile road trip a couple of years ago), but they're pretty tragic in stop and go traffic. The variation is far more than I've found in any other vehicle. 

I do mostly in town driving. I went from a RX-8, which had notoriously bad fuel economy to a 6th gen Camaro and it was much worse. I'm not sure how a thread about fuel economy came to include the marvels of brodozers and V8s. Very sad world we live in.

The lifetime average on my FiST is about 25mpg on 87 octane. I'm not sure it's critical to get they very best fuel economy, just decent.

I'd be tempted by the same ones mentioned; 86, SI, GTi. Sounds like they fixed the engine in the new 86. I found the previous gen GTi too grown up. It sounds like the new SI might trend a bit in that direction too.

Keith Tanner said:

One note on this based on my experience with the LS motors. They basically work on a gallon per hour basis. So woofling along the interstate at 75 mph means great economy (within 10% of a turbo Miata, based on a 2000 mile road trip a couple of years ago), but they're pretty tragic in stop and go traffic. The variation is far more than I've found in any other vehicle. 

My Audi is like that.  Twin turbo 4L V8, gets 28-ish mpg with the cruise set at 70 and less than half of that in stop and go traffic.

As for the whole "zero/infinite" thing, to be pedantic, "infinity" is not a number.  N divided by 0, is not "infinity", it is "undefined". :)

Snrub said:

I do mostly in town driving. I went from a RX-8, which had notoriously bad fuel economy to a 6th gen Camaro and it was much worse. I'm not sure how a thread about fuel economy came to include the marvels of brodozers and V8s. Very sad world we live in.

Because it was economy vs horsepower, and those who are championing the V8s are basing it on highway (where they work well) and not your in-town experience (where they don't). 500 hp and close to 30 mpg highway with Miata aero is a tough number to match. But around town, it'll be 40-50% of that.

Not all diesels are brodozers. Some of them come in hatchbacks.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Or just regular pickup trucks doing truck stuff.