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aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
4/16/22 11:53 p.m.

Just to clarity, is Stabil effective in counteracting alcohols bad effect?

Will pumps be marked when the mixture changes?  You would think it would, but I don't think they ever note the winter / summer change.

(I have a lot of carbs)

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/17/22 8:40 a.m.

In reply to aircooled :

The summer/winter blend is often "marked" by a sharp dropoff then rise in fuel prices, or a sharp rise then dropoff, depending on if they have an overstock of the old fuel they have to get rid of quickly before they can't sell it anymore, or if they are running low and can't sell the new formulation yet.

This may not actually be a thing anymore.  At one point there was a problem so they temporarily shifted to a longer switchover window, this change may have become permanent.

flatlander937
flatlander937 HalfDork
4/17/22 12:07 p.m.

In reply to aircooled :

Take my anecdote for what it's worth:

I put Stabil in our lawn mower (and the fuel can for it) after the last use every winter - starts up first one or two pulls without issue when it gets started 3-4 months later.

frenchyd
frenchyd GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/17/22 7:07 p.m.
aircooled said:

Just to clarity, is Stabil effective in counteracting alcohols bad effect?

Will pumps be marked when the mixture changes?  You would think it would, but I don't think they ever note the winter / summer change.

(I have a lot of carbs)

Short answer? Yes.  
 Longer answer. If you talk to real knowledgeable people instead of "internet experts". (Sorry if that's Pejorative)   Much of the myth of negative effects of ethanol are not valid. 
   The easy argument is that you drink beer,  wine, and mixed drinks. ( in moderation)    And don't die.  
 Methanol does do the things claimed but methanol isn't ethanol. 

Berck
Berck Reader
4/17/22 8:55 p.m.

What a silly argument.  I also drink water and don't die, but my carburetors sure don't like it.

frenchyd
frenchyd GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/17/22 9:33 p.m.

In reply to Berck :

Methanol if you drink it you die 

 ethanol if you drink it you get happy. 
 
both are alcohols but they are different alcohol's. 
 Many people think they are both the same and that causes a great deal of misconceptions. 
         While both have been used as fuels. 
 Methanol does a lot of damage while ethanol  doesn't.  
  Yes both attract  water. And water can cause issues. But remember water is always in gasoline.  Pure gasoline,  the holding tanks at the refineries,. The tanks at the gas station, 

And in your cars tank 

 They  are all vented to the air. When air comes in to replace fuel there is humidity in the air.  So every step of the way water is in every fuel  tank. 
       So those who say the water was caused by the alcohol really forget about those vents

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/18/22 11:52 a.m.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:
rslifkin said:

In reply to Berck :

Most OBDII systems will adjust up to about 30% extra fuel, IIRC.  Not sure about older stuff, however.  As far as open loop, most will still apply the long term fuel trim value to adjust the open loop tables (at least for OBDII stuff).  So if it's been steadily adding 8% extra fuel across the board, it'll do that in open loop too. 

I'm not sure why the limit was set.  It may be an actual compatibility concern, but it's also likely just all they tested with at the time.  E85, etc. wasn't really on the table in the 90s. 

I have seen +52% STFT on a Chevy truck before...

Just because this rolled in today.  20 year old 3 liter Toyota.

Granted, it IS setting a fault code being this far out of whack...

Berck
Berck Reader
4/18/22 12:34 p.m.

46.9 sounds beyond the realm of what it could actually run with, assuming that actually means 46.9% rich over some baseline? Or does that just mean 46.9% of its available adjustment?

Of course, my original question was about things like my 1991 Miata which I don't think even has long term fuel trim (pre-OBDII).

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
4/18/22 1:15 p.m.

In reply to Berck :

It means that much percentage over the calibration.  So the computer had a learned value of +46.9 in that load cell, with an immediate trim of 19.5% (probably a hard limit) on top of that.

I do not know whatever computer Mazda used, but I do know that Ford and GM computers in the 80s and 90s had short term and long term trims.  And it has been so long, I cannot remember the names they had.  All I can remember is block learn.

Toebra
Toebra Dork
4/18/22 4:33 p.m.
frenchyd said:

In reply to Mr_Asa :

Just trying to understand what was said.
 To explain it. Racers like ethanol.
   People who want to save money can appreciate ethanol.   

That has nothing to do with this at all, nada, zero.

 

gearheadmb said:

Here's the thing about making ethanol from corn. A very large quantity of the corn grown in the US is used for animal feed, it always has been. After an ethanol plant extracts what it needs from the corn what is left is called "brewers grain" which is still a viable animal feed. So they can resell the brewers grain as a feed source, so using corn for fuel doesn't substantially effect corn supply. Our national farming infrastructure is setup for corn, and is able to be produced in a much larger swath of the country which also makes it a better choice for the ethanol plants. While corn may not be the best source for sugar, it is OUR best source for sugar.

No, it is not.  High fructose corn syrup is much worse for you than regular sugar. 

 

Oh, and that little blurb from the IMF is a load of crap.

 

Food prices in general are up because China lost most of its grain crop due to floods, Ukraine and Russia are fighting, not planting.   

 

 

Food prices in the USA are up to a large extent due to money being printed as fast as possible

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