Early BMW 2002,what to look for?

Hey guys,

I am going to look at this car this afternoon:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320644613273&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:MOTORS:1123#ht_628wt_1167

Anything I should specifically look for on it aside from the normal rust/rot on any car this old? Any help is appreciated. I know nothing about these cars,but TR8Todd is heading out to look at it with me. He has a 74 or so 2002,but it is a lot different as it is a race car,and has been for quite some time.

Chris

Rear shock towers can be notorious for collapsing.

Very rust free for Massachusetts!

Hard to tell from the pix, but that one actually looks pretty good rust-wise. Don't be alarmed if you get a touch of oil smoke when lifting off the throttle, it's much more likely to be bad seals up in the head than bad rings or something (a leakdown test would make sure). 2nd gear synchros are known to fail, and take a look at the output flange on the transmission, they get loose on the early cars. Good luck! That's a super-rare color, all the years I played with 02s I only saw about two of them.

2002? Um...Look for ROUND taillights. That is all.

I can't make out on my monitor if it is an off white,or a light mint green. What ever the color I like it though. Odd name for the color though,but then again my RX-7 is Spark Yellow.

Disregard what I said about shock towers pertaining to that car. I didn't look at the link, and those look real good.

I'd be very suspicious about rust or "rust repairs" claimed or otherwise on any 2002, particularly one in the Northeast. Why are the rear shock towers a different color than the rest of the car? If they were repaired, how were they repaired? Otherwise, it's a 40 year old car, so anything at this point can be in need of repair.

Florida may very well be a rare color, but I think it only came on 1602 and 2002ti. If that is correct it is not the original color. Other than the rear shock towers check out the steering box for free play. TR8Todd can help with that I'd guess. The missing window rubbers are about $120 each if you get a good price. Look like there are some projects required to get it back on the road. I see no air cleaner, maybe missing window winder and vent window knob on passenger door, a wiring mess on the center console that looks to be aftermarket add-on gauges.

I paid about half of the current price for mine, but it is a big-bumpered square taillight car with rustier floors than that one. Check out www.2002faq.com for a good source of info on these cars. I think it looks like an ok deal at the current price from the pics.

T.J. wrote: Florida may very well be a rare color, but I think it only came on 1602 and 2002ti. If that is correct it is not the original color.

VIN tag says Florida,otherwise,what you said.

I went to see the car,and it is in remarkably solid condition. Not perfect,and the hood,fenders,doors,and nose piece had been replaced after a small fender bender. Also the rockers looked a bit odd with lots of body filler on them,but we weren't sure if it was hiding bad things,or just shoddy work when repainting the car. The floors were mint,and so was the trunk,and strut towers. It ran good as well just idling,and on the choke in the freezing conditions here in MA. The seller only has water in the engine though,and that concerns me as it has been below freezing around here for quite sometime.

Overall it seems like a solid car,but will require some work to make it really nice. If it is at $4000-$4500 at the final bell like it is now it is probably a good deal,but not much higher than that in my opinion.

Can anyone tell what exactly what it is by the VIN,as I got a pic of it?

How about this as a newer alternative?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MINT-RUST-FREE-1983-BMW-320i-5-SPEED-NICE-ALPINA-MODS-/200566507313?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item2eb2b20731#ht_1484wt_1167

Chris

That 320 will drive worlds better then the 2002 and imho is cooler to boot. Its exactly what I wish my last 320 was. If you sold all the cool parts on the 320 you could almost recoup the cost of car!

Mazdax605 wrote: I went to see the car,and it is in remarkably solid condition. Not perfect,and the hood,fenders,doors,and nose piece had been replaced after a small fender bender. Also the rockers looked a bit odd with lots of body filler on them,but we weren't sure if it was hiding bad things,or just shoddy work when repainting the car. The floors were mint,and so was the trunk,and strut towers. It ran good as well just idling,and on the choke in the freezing conditions here in MA. The seller only has water in the engine though,and that concerns me as it has been below freezing around here for quite sometime. Overall it seems like a solid car,but will require some work to make it really nice. If it is at $4000-$4500 at the final bell like it is now it is probably a good deal,but not much higher than that in my opinion. Can anyone tell what exactly what it is by the VIN,as I got a pic of it? How about this as a newer alternative? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MINT-RUST-FREE-1983-BMW-320i-5-SPEED-NICE-ALPINA-MODS-/200566507313?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item2eb2b20731#ht_1484wt_1167 Chris

That is an interesting car. It looks like one of the more pedestrian versions of the Euro market E21 turned into an Alpina clone. There were a few Alpina-tuned 4-cyl cars, but if that's one of the real ones it's worth a lot more than $4.5K.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=18771039

The March 2007 issue of Thoroughbred and Classic Cars magazine, from England, had a three-page spread on the early 2002s. As far as I can tell, they don't have a search function (or much of anything, really) on their website, but this is a jpeg of the first two pages. Hope it helps!

(I have that issue right here in my hand, but holding it up to the computer doesn't seem to get me anywhere.)

Mazdax605 wrote: Also the rockers looked a bit odd with lots of body filler on them,but we weren't sure if it was hiding bad things,or just shoddy work when repainting the car.

You know the answer to that, don't you? Come on now, get the stars out of your eyes.....

No stars in my eyes. Just not sure what was going on as the floors are super solid all around which would make me think the rockers are fine,but they look odd. I don't think I will bid on the car though. The Alpina clone is interesting though. Anyone know much about the E21 cars,that could give me some insight?

Chris

Anything on these cars can be fixed, check out my friends build thread: http://r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=146243

M2Pilot wrote:

T.J. wrote: Florida may very well be a rare color, but I think it only came on 1602 and 2002ti. If that is correct it is not the original color.

VIN tag says Florida,otherwise,what you said.

Thanks. I learn something new everyday. I stand corrected and hope that my post didn't confuse anybody.

Speaking of 2002s, have you seen our newest project car over at the Classic Motorsports site?

http://classicmotorsports.net/project-cars/1972-26-2002tii/better-seen-sorry/

So guys is this car way overpriced for a normal 320i with some Alpina bits?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MINT-RUST-FREE-1983-BMW-320i-5-SPEED-NICE-ALPINA-MODS-/200566507313?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item2eb2b20731#ht_1484wt_1167

I ask because I don't really know much about these cars,but I do like the look ofit,and it does appear clean. Something tells me it is overpriced though.

Mazdax605 wrote: So guys is this car way overpriced for a normal 320i with some Alpina bits?

Yes. The seller (at least he was honest about it) admitted that it was a US spec car that had been decorated with Eurospec parts.

"only under the rear bumper was repainted at the time of the Euro bumper conversion"

"While the working odometer shows just over 85,400 miles, the cluster has been changed to the currently installed Euro spec unit."

Mazdax605 wrote: I ask because I don't really know much about these cars,but I do like the look ofit,and it does appear clean. Something tells me it is overpriced though.

Oh, yeah. Way overpriced. I noticed that even though the bidding on that car hit $4500, it still didn't hit the owner's reserve. Even with all the Alpina "tribute" parts, I wouldn't pay more than $2.5K for it. And that's only because the tub is so clean (well kept E21s don't rust like 2002s, but they do get a little tin-worm) and the paint's so good. I love the E21..but that guy's crazy if he thinks he's going to get $6,383 for a poseur car. If he'd done the engine swap (replacing the M10 with any M20) it might be worth more, but like a lot of project cars, it would be more expensive to do the swap than what he could sell it for. You could buy a wrecked E30 donor & a clean US market "320i" and build one for yourself, but these days it's a little tougher (IIRC, the 6-cyl cars had a different subframe, they were dang near unobtanium even back then, you'd have to fabricate everything to get an M20 into a US market car, or find a dead Eurospec E21 and hope the front subframe wasn't rusted out). Personally, I'd rather spend the money on repairing the rust on a real M20 powered Euro market E21 (323i or 320/6) than do the engine swap on even a "clean" US market E21. The little 6-cyl reallly wakes up the car. Stuff like that was why some of us actually imported Euro-spec cars into the US (back in the 80s) in the first place.

I'd actually take the 2002 you first mentioned over the faux Alpina E21, even though the 02 needs more work. What you saw when you looked at it makes me curious, though. I don't think I've seen one with bad rockers that didn't have bad floors as well. I don't blame you for being suspicious.

Thanks FGC, I didn't bid on either of the cars,but of the two I would rather of had the E21. Now I am adding those to a short list of cars to look for.

Chris

Mazdax605 wrote: Thanks FGC, I didn't bid on either of the cars,but of the two I would rather of had the E21. Now I am adding those to a short list of cars to look for. Chris

Chris, the E21 gets short shrift in the US for two reasons. First, because BMW didn't send the good (IMO, M20 6-cyl versions like the 320/6 or 323i) E21s to the US because of the same 70s-80s emission regulations that caused US carmakers to strangle their own engines.

Second, BMW was trying to go "upmarket" in the US, like Porsche did in the 1950s, and Mercedes did in the 1960s. The E21 was probably the first victim of the 80's "Yuppie" phenomenon here. I recall that when I was driving my first 2002, I still had non-ethusiast people asking me if the BMW acronym stood for "British Motor Works". BMW NA was selling every overloaded & underpowered E21 they could send over here for an amazing MSRP. I never even saw so much as a cloth interior in an E21 until I found my "grey market" 323i back then. In Europe, the E21 was offered in every trim level from economical (with a 4-cyl as small as 1600cc!) to performance (the afore-mentioned 2.0ltr carburated or 2.3ltr injected sixes), but none of those options were ever offered in the US.

If you want an E21, find one that's not rusty (not as hard to do as finding a 2002 in the same shape), and has had all the US market weight stripped out of it (like that guy tried to do with his Alpina clone). I can't quite tell yet, but buying an old "grey market" 6cyl and reparing it may be cheaper than buying a US market E21 and trying to put an M20 in it. IIRC, the front subframe is different, and expensive if you can even find one.

Damn, what does it mean when your automobile ADD makes you want something you used to have, but don't have anymore?

It's called GRM. There is no cure,and your in the loony bin as we speak.

Its tough to shop for these cars without seeing them in person. I personally wouldnt even negotiate without seeing it, especially one with full interior.

But for the future, check the rear wheel wells. Mine were pretty bad- I had no idea until I got it home.

-Jay