Enable me, or talk me off the ledge

And I'll throw this out as it's the closest I could find to what you are thinking of

Purple Frog (Forum Supporter) said:

I have read all the above.  Decided to chime in.

I am a RVer.  I have owned 3 so far.  I have a 38' gasser in the back yard tonight.

Like Pete, I have an RV because of four legged animals.  And I have a RV because its the greatest thing at the track.  Instead of being at a motel where my dear wife has to get up at 6 am so I can be at the track by 7:30, we have an RV.  I can start working on the car at 7, and she can peak out the door at 8 holding a cup of coffee and smiling.  Happy wife, happy life.

I live in Florida.  I buy used RVs.  They are plentiful anywhere within 20 miles of the I-4 corridor.  I buy gas units, because i can easily work on them.  I've had V-10s and big block GMs.   Probably like the V-10s better.

Last year I helped a buddy buy a 36' gas RV for $16K, we put $5k in it and he  and wife went to Alaska and back on a 4 month journey, with a big dog., and towing a car behind. So much easier and cheaper than spending a lot to build some "conversion" from a bus or such.

I can go to Moab in the summer.  Leave the dog in the RV with the A/C on.  We don't have to find hotels or AirB&Bs that take dogs.

I tow the race trailer to race tracks.  An used RV is the cheapest "dually" you can buy.  When we go exploring we tow a small 4WD behind.  We have done trails in Colorado, Utah and the like.  Come back to the RV after dark to heat and comfort. 

Yes, I get 7 mpg going downhill with a tail wind.  Yes, I have to do some maintenance to parts of the "house".  But all the needed parts are easy to get almost anywhere in the U.S. and are simple repairs.

The cost of fuel works out when balanced against hotels and such.  Plus, with the RV you get closer to the "action".

As always... YMMV

 

I'm on my first coach, or motorhome. if single again, god forbid, I would go back to pulling a camper with a cool azz tow rig (I've had a few, and a few not so cool!!!) But as long as I have the wife and furry kids, Ill stay with a coach we either wanted a 32-34 foot, or go big, for our needs at the time. Now, with us only doing short trips, we want a 27 - 32 foot, but I don't know if Ill ever afford it!

Funny how the Ferd V10 has such a poor image with the general public, and a huge portion ov the RV world loves 'em! To leave stock, id want the V10, if planing to hop it up the 8.1 GM would be (I think) the better starting point.

All good points you posted.

In reply to Antihero (Forum Supporter) :

All I can say is I know people running either exactly the setup I'm planning to do or smaller without a problem.  The couple that built the prototype for most of what I plan to do has been living full-time in their rig for over a year.  I have no plans to live in my van full-time.  Usually just weekend trips with maybe a week or two as I get older. The link I post about the lithium/solar set-up isn't quite the same as what I have planned. They have much larger vehicles and much larger A/C systems. I have a E350 extended, raised roof van that while big compared to cars, is small even by Class B RV standards. It won't need a lot of power to run.  

The A/C and electrical systems will likely be the first systems installed in the van, since it's the easiest to do. As I've hinted, the plumbing will be much more complicated (and I live with electrical systems every day; plumbing I try to avoid...). And I'm sure I will install everything, see what works and what doesn't, then rip it all out and rebuild it. At least once. Probably twice. Maybe it'll be "right" by the 3rd build.  I accept that as a necessary evil of trying to stuff 10 lbs into a 5 lb bag.  Especially since I haven't even mentioned some of the other things I want to do: second fuel tank and auto-leveling, for example. The fuel tank shouldn't be "too" hard - it cn go where the spare tire currently lives. Auto-leveling will be trickier. If nothing else, the entire van will get ripped apart to do the 12V CTD/Allison conversion - since by all accounts I've read so far, the body has to come off the frame to do the swap. Otherwise, the CTD fits in the E-series well and the turbo plumbing is cleaner than the PSD.  It will require converting the front clip to a '08+ to fit the PSD intercooler.  But this is years down the road. 

Running an induction stove on battery power is no problem, especially if you're not cooking at max power.  As long as the battery bank is big enough that the discharge rate isn't too large (relatively speaking), it'll be fine.  Of course, you do need to have a way to put all that power back later. 

Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:

03Panther said:

In reply to Antihero (Forum Supporter) :

I think he was responding to gasoline, not gas. But easy to confuse. I think it was in response to a gas apliance statement, but it may have just been about the benifits of a diesel engine.

 

No. I am dead-set against having propane on board.  Not because I dislike it as a fuel, but because I don't want to deal with either finding a way to safely store and plumb a 20 lb tank or use precious under carriage space for an RV LP tank.  All for cooking and heat - neither of which will be used on every trip.  A battery bank large enough to run the A/C system will boil a pot of water on an induction cooktop for my tortellini pasta well enough. A diesel fueled boiler can provide heat for the various needs as well as pre-heat the engine if plumbed for it (since that is what it's actually meant for).  The end desire is to keep the "things that burn fuel" to as low a number as possible. In my case - two - the engine itself and the boiler. 

I've looked at a marine style diesel fueled cooktop, but unfortunately, it would limit the layout of the interior too much as it needs an exterior wall and due to the number of existing windows in the van, bare wall space is limited.  in the end, an induction cooktop running off a smallish inverter is just the easy button.  I'm not planning to cook gourmet meals at a ski resort/bike park. Hell - a good portion of the time, I camp with folks who bring a feast of BBQ options and I won't cook at all.  Sometimes, we'll clean up and drive to a restaurant to eat. 

This doesn't mean my ideas are the best options for everyone - far from it, but the advantage of building an RV from the ground up is you can choose to build it for exactly how you plan to use it.  While I do want some kitchen capabilities, they do not need to be extensive. I've watched videos of van-lifers who make do with a lot less than I plan to have.

FYI, the propane tank on the Vanagons is 3 gallons. It's quite compact, lives under the floor. That will run a cooktop for a very, very long time. I keep a 1 lb bottle with a connection hose as a refill in case I ever run out. Plumbing consists of a single hose and an externally accessible fill port that is accessed by reaching under the van. If you're worried about space, propane is a whole lot more energy dense than batteries. So I wouldn't write off the propane option for cooking.

As for AC - I'd be tempted to see if I could manage a high voltage battery bank so I could use the 400V compressors used in electric cars. You're pulling pretty high amps with the 12v version and wiring size will start to become a limiting factor.

rslifkin said:

Running an induction stove on battery power is no problem, especially if you're not cooking at max power.  As long as the battery bank is big enough that the discharge rate isn't too large (relatively speaking), it'll be fine.  Of course, you do need to have a way to put all that power back later. 

Well, yes it's electricity either way so yes it's possible. It's just not a great idea when other options exist.

I have a system that's similar in AH to what you are planning. I would never ever use electric to cook with it. I know people that run t16 2v batteries with 1135ah each, run 48 of them in series/parallel that won't use electric stoves or heat.

You are basically taking up a massive amount of your battery capacity for one thing while degrading your batteries. No generator means that you'll have to have a butt load of panels to make it up, and solar power isn't reliable because cloudy days exist.

Using the van engine to power isnt a terrible idea at all but it means that on a cloudy day after cooking dinner you are idling your engine for awhile. Lithium batteries are very touchy with over charging and over charging even once destroys them. It's one reason I use flooded cell myself but I get why you'd want to not have that on a vehicle.

I'm not saying it cant be done, I'm saying I wouldn't do it. I see lots of scenarios where you are in a massive hole battery wise. You will always always always use more power than you think. You might want something more for dinner, or a hot drink when you didn't plan for it.

Even a little camp stove with the propane bottles you buy at the store would mean that you aren't using all your battery juice for one thing. 

I just literally watched my father in law take a brand new set of batteries and destroy them in 3 days using power like he saw people using them on YouTube.

I'm not trying to throw a wrench in your dreams, off grid van life is awesome! I'm just saying........set yourself up for as much success as possible and have backups. Put the induction stove in and see......but keep a camp stove on a shelf somewhere. 

It's the best advice I can give you after running my system for 15 years and being on solar for 24 years

Keith Tanner said:

FYI, the propane tank on the Vanagons is 3 gallons. It's quite compact, lives under the floor. That will run a cooktop for a very, very long time. I keep a 1 lb bottle with a connection hose as a refill in case I ever run out. Plumbing consists of a single hose and an externally accessible fill port that is accessed by reaching under the van. If you're worried about space, propane is a whole lot more energy dense than batteries. So I wouldn't write off the propane option for cooking.

As for AC - I'd be tempted to see if I could manage a high voltage battery bank so I could use the 400V compressors used in electric cars. You're pulling pretty high amps with the 12v version and wiring size will start to become a limiting factor.

As you have mentioned numerous times, Vanagons don't have a stupid number of water tanks hanging under them.  

My electrical system will be complicated enough without trying to figure out how to transformer 400V down to 12V.  The 12V system is simple. I'm not worried about wire sizes since the cable length between the fuse panel and the compressor will be about 4 feet.

reply to Anithero:

I'm not sure what your father did, but all I know is a lot of others are running induction cook tops off lithium batteries.  Some of them a lot smaller than 600 AH. And have been doing so for years on the same batteries.  I'll take your experiences under consideration, but I still do not want propane in the van.  

So I'm thinking about finding a broker to bid on this class-C that's at a nearby IAAI auction, but I'm not sure it's worth their bid fee because my hunch is it'll end up selling about the same as what used ones on Marketplace go for - around $9-$10k. Any input?

No, they don't, but they also don't have the available underfloor space of a big van :) If space is the issue, a small propane tank will take up a lot less space than the equivalent amount of energy in a battery and the plumbing takes roughly the same amount of room as wiring. You mentioned a 20 lb tank. That's way overkill. That 3 lb tank is good for weeks of cooking on a cooktop. Rough calculations say it'll run one burner on my cooktop at max heat for 10 hours. That's weeks of use in the real world, and having a baby 1 lb bottle on hand as a reserve tank gives you another 3 hours.

Just some experience from using one of these.

Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) said:

So I'm thinking about finding a broker to bid on this class-C that's at a nearby IAAI auction, but I'm not sure it's worth their bid fee because my hunch is it'll end up selling about the same as what used ones on Marketplace go for - around $9-$10k. Any input?

It doesn't look bad, although one question is why does it have a salvage title? 

I'd be hesitant to bid on it unless you can inspect it in person to check the roof condition and for water damage.

In reply to Ian F (Forum Supporter) :

He ran a/c during the day and space heaters at night. I believe he microwaved a meal too. 

Do a build thread when you do this though, I'll subscribe

In reply to Ian F (Forum Supporter) :

I can, but it requires a $200 annual membership with IAAI to do so. I was really hoping they'd auction it between the holidays, but obviously they're smart enough not to do that. At this point my gut feeling is it's going to sell for way more that what I'd pay for it, so I think I'll just see what it gets bid up to...though I'd hate to miss a deal. 

Keith Tanner said:

My old carbureted Subaru wagon at 10,000' with a sleeping bag in the back and ice on the inside of the windows, that was pretty minimal car camping...

Mr. Fancy Pants with his baller indoor sleeping, sheez.

That's why I specified CAR camping!

kb58 said:

Keith Tanner said:

My old carbureted Subaru wagon at 10,000' with a sleeping bag in the back and ice on the inside of the windows, that was pretty minimal car camping...

Mr. Fancy Pants with his baller indoor sleeping, sheez.

Hey now, he never said all the windows were there/rolled up/not on fire.

It may not have been indoors at all