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Bullfrog12
Bullfrog12
3/25/23 1:37 p.m.

Getting back into four wheeled vehicles after playing with two wheels for over 40 years and need a little help deciding which car I should buy for a "Track Day Car".  Just rented a Miata at NOLA for a track day and decided it is too small for me.  Options I am considering now are a 2011-2014 V-6 Mustang or a 2013-2020 (Gen 1) Toyota 86/Subaru BRZ?

Which one would you suggest and why?

Thank You Very Much

John Welsh
John Welsh Mod Squad
3/25/23 1:53 p.m.

Both are probably great. I recommend to bring a helmet with you to the test drives to verify fitment. 

BoxheadTim
BoxheadTim GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
3/25/23 2:03 p.m.

The Frisbee should have more interior room - mine fit me fine and I'm a marginal fit in NA/NB Miatas. Plenty of track mods to be had as well and I found it an easy drive on the track.

Well, once I put a new used engine in after I vented the block the first time I took it on the track. I recommend getting one as new as the budget will stand and add the basic track mods.

No experience with the Mustang, but I don't see any reason why that wouldn't make a capable track car as well.

Tom1200
Tom1200 UberDork
3/25/23 3:03 p.m.

I'd be inclined to go with the GT86 / BRZ. They are 800lbs lighter and likely will be easier on tires.

SKJSS (formerly Klayfish)
SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) PowerDork
3/25/23 3:26 p.m.

What is your daily driver now? If it's remotely competent, I would suggest doing one track day with it first. Before you go investing a lot of money in a truck car, be sure it's what you really want to do.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
3/25/23 3:56 p.m.
Tom1200 said:

I'd be inclined to go with the GT86 / BRZ. They are 800lbs lighter and likely will be easier on tires.

I considered a Mustang before buying my 86 and the lower running cost was a major factor. Mind you, you'll lose some of the savings in insurance costs on the world's most crashed vehicle...

Go for a 2017+ model if you can, they have a lot of reliability fixes over the older models. The engine will still need a few oiling system mods to survive on track though. See this thread:

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/how-to-get-started-modifying-a/192574/page1/

 

Olemiss540
Olemiss540 HalfDork
3/25/23 6:19 p.m.

C5 corvette? Camaro? What's the budget and goals? How DIY/handy are you? Did you enjoy the momentum nature of the miata or were you immediately craving some additional thrust? What tracks will you be driving and any tow vehicle? Plans for future potential hobby racing?

ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter)
ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) Dork
3/26/23 8:01 a.m.

Don't want to discourage you from the BRZ or Mustang (I'd probably pick the Mustang) but how big are you?  I'm not small and I have some pretty big friends that fit into Miatas with a little work. Custom seat brackets, drop floor pans, etc. It can probably be done. 

Bullfrog12
Bullfrog12 New Reader
3/26/23 8:45 a.m.
John Welsh said:

Both are probably great. I recommend to bring a helmet with you to the test drives to verify fitment. 

Good idea...Thanks.

Bullfrog12
Bullfrog12 New Reader
3/26/23 8:51 a.m.
BoxheadTim said:

The Frisbee should have more interior room - mine fit me fine and I'm a marginal fit in NA/NB Miatas. Plenty of track mods to be had as well and I found it an easy drive on the track.

Well, once I put a new used engine in after I vented the block the first time I took it on the track. I recommend getting one as new as the budget will stand and add the basic track mods.

No experience with the Mustang, but I don't see any reason why that wouldn't make a capable track car as well.

What is the connection with the "Frisbee" reference?  That is a new one on me. 

Any idea what caused the engine failure (besides a rod through the block)?

Thank You

Bullfrog12
Bullfrog12 New Reader
3/26/23 8:52 a.m.
SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) said:

What is your daily driver now? If it's remotely competent, I would suggest doing one track day with it first. Before you go investing a lot of money in a truck car, be sure it's what you really want to do.

Daily driver is a F-250...but I like the way you think :).

Bullfrog12
Bullfrog12 New Reader
3/26/23 8:53 a.m.
GameboyRMH said:
Tom1200 said:

I'd be inclined to go with the GT86 / BRZ. They are 800lbs lighter and likely will be easier on tires.

I considered a Mustang before buying my 86 and the lower running cost was a major factor. Mind you, you'll lose some of the savings in insurance costs on the world's most crashed vehicle...

Go for a 2017+ model if you can, they have a lot of reliability fixes over the older models. The engine will still need a few oiling system mods to survive on track though. See this thread:

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/how-to-get-started-modifying-a/192574/page1/

 

Thanks and thanks for the link...I am relatively uninformed regarding the BRZ/86.

Bullfrog12
Bullfrog12 New Reader
3/26/23 8:59 a.m.
Olemiss540 said:

C5 corvette? Camaro? What's the budget and goals? How DIY/handy are you? Did you enjoy the momentum nature of the miata or were you immediately craving some additional thrust? What tracks will you be driving and any tow vehicle? Plans for future potential hobby racing?

Budget is available to do just about anything I want to do.  No plans regarding door to door racing...just drive fast legally i.e. track days.  I used to race karts with WKA Road Racing so "momentum driving" is OK.  Home track will be Barbers.  A Camaro is an option but never been a Vette fan...operating cost and more importantly the amount of maintenance/upkeep required are my primary concerns...I'd rather drive than work on the car.  Being a retired Mechanical Engineer, I used to enjoy working on my rides but now my old body can't handle it as easily :).

Bullfrog12
Bullfrog12 New Reader
3/26/23 12:51 p.m.

QUESTION....is anybody aware of any reliability issues when using a 2013-2016 FRS/86/BRZ for track days and pushing them really hard for 30 minutes sessions, assuming I leave the engine stock? 

I tend to find the weak points of any machine since I a pretty hard on them.  My driving style is not the smoothest or fastest but it does look fun when I am sliding around, slamming on brakes, and hammering shifts to try and keep up and/or catch a faster car.  You'd think I was a 17 year old kid until you see an old gray headed man trying to pry himself out of the drivers seat :).

Thank You

 

John Welsh
John Welsh Mod Squad
3/26/23 1:26 p.m.
Bullfrog12 said:  What is the connection with the "Frisbee" reference?  That is a new one on me.

 Scion FRS and Subaru BRZ combined make FRS-BRZ or Fris-burz which has been modified to Fris-bee as a single name to reference the two models.  This all happened before Toyota killed Scion and moved the model to be a Toyota but the Fisbee designation has kind of stuck.    

 

 

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
3/26/23 2:15 p.m.
Bullfrog12 said:

QUESTION....is anybody aware of any reliability issues when using a 2013-2016 FRS/86/BRZ for track days and pushing them really hard for 30 minutes sessions, assuming I leave the engine stock? 

I tend to find the weak points of any machine since I a pretty hard on them.  My driving style is not the smoothest or fastest but it does look fun when I am sliding around, slamming on brakes, and hammering shifts to try and keep up and/or catch a faster car.  You'd think I was a 17 year old kid until you see an old gray headed man trying to pry himself out of the drivers seat :).

Thank You

That would be playing Russian Roulette with the engine due to oil temperature...I would not recommend doing anything more than autocross runs until you add an oil cooler.

BoxheadTim
BoxheadTim GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
3/26/23 2:41 p.m.
Bullfrog12 said:
BoxheadTim said:

The Frisbee should have more interior room - mine fit me fine and I'm a marginal fit in NA/NB Miatas. Plenty of track mods to be had as well and I found it an easy drive on the track.

Well, once I put a new used engine in after I vented the block the first time I took it on the track. I recommend getting one as new as the budget will stand and add the basic track mods.

No experience with the Mustang, but I don't see any reason why that wouldn't make a capable track car as well.

Any idea what caused the engine failure (besides a rod through the block)?

Mine was a really early one (2013), and those had issues, especially after an initial engine recall had been completed. It's not quite clear if there was an issue with the engine due to the recall or if it was just doing what these do occasionally. I was running an oil cooler, but I suspect there was already some damage to the engine before I took to the track and tracking it took care of the rest.

I don't think we were able to determine if the piston made a run for it first, or if the big end seized first. Either way there weren't exactly a lot of useable parts left over.

BoxheadTim
BoxheadTim GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
3/26/23 2:41 p.m.
GameboyRMH said:
Bullfrog12 said:

QUESTION....is anybody aware of any reliability issues when using a 2013-2016 FRS/86/BRZ for track days and pushing them really hard for 30 minutes sessions, assuming I leave the engine stock? 

I tend to find the weak points of any machine since I a pretty hard on them.  My driving style is not the smoothest or fastest but it does look fun when I am sliding around, slamming on brakes, and hammering shifts to try and keep up and/or catch a faster car.  You'd think I was a 17 year old kid until you see an old gray headed man trying to pry himself out of the drivers seat :).

Thank You

That would be playing Russian Roulette with the engine due to oil temperature...I would not recommend doing anything more than autocross runs until you add an oil cooler.

Word.

Bullfrog12
Bullfrog12 New Reader
3/26/23 7:02 p.m.
BoxheadTim said:
GameboyRMH said:
Bullfrog12 said:

QUESTION....is anybody aware of any reliability issues when using a 2013-2016 FRS/86/BRZ for track days and pushing them really hard for 30 minutes sessions, assuming I leave the engine stock? 

I tend to find the weak points of any machine since I a pretty hard on them.  My driving style is not the smoothest or fastest but it does look fun when I am sliding around, slamming on brakes, and hammering shifts to try and keep up and/or catch a faster car.  You'd think I was a 17 year old kid until you see an old gray headed man trying to pry himself out of the drivers seat :).

Thank You

That would be playing Russian Roulette with the engine due to oil temperature...I would not recommend doing anything more than autocross runs until you add an oil cooler.

 

Thank You...I have zero experience with that particular drivetrain.

Olemiss540
Olemiss540 HalfDork
3/26/23 7:33 p.m.
Bullfrog12 said:
Olemiss540 said:

C5 corvette? Camaro? What's the budget and goals? How DIY/handy are you? Did you enjoy the momentum nature of the miata or were you immediately craving some additional thrust? What tracks will you be driving and any tow vehicle? Plans for future potential hobby racing?

Budget is available to do just about anything I want to do.  No plans regarding door to door racing...just drive fast legally i.e. track days.  I used to race karts with WKA Road Racing so "momentum driving" is OK.  Home track will be Barbers.  A Camaro is an option but never been a Vette fan...operating cost and more importantly the amount of maintenance/upkeep required are my primary concerns...I'd rather drive than work on the car.  Being a retired Mechanical Engineer, I used to enjoy working on my rides but now my old body can't handle it as easily :).

Pensacola? I'm in Orange Beach! Given the desire for low operating costs and lower maintenance as being the main motivators, your experience racing carts, and your current f250, I would look into a Lotus.....

RacerBoy75
RacerBoy75 Reader
3/26/23 8:42 p.m.

If the OP  doesn't fit in a Miata, then he probably won't fit in a Lotus, or at least be able to get into a Lotus.

 

 

ddavidv
ddavidv UltimaDork
3/27/23 7:08 a.m.

When I was doing track instruction, my best students were always piloting Miatas.  I'd also recommend low end BMW models (no M cars). 

bobzilla
bobzilla MegaDork
3/27/23 7:12 a.m.

If cost of running it is important than you'd be remiss to ignore the fit/Rio/2 b-spec/sundae cup cars. Tank of gas lasts all weekend, tires run you most of a season brakes last all year. 

kevinatfms
kevinatfms GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
3/27/23 8:14 a.m.

A 11-14 V6 Mustang would be killer. 300+hp, 6 speed and just an infinite aftermarket. Ford Performance has a massive catalog of off the shelf components that fit the V6 cars from the faster V8 cars that bolt right on. 

Bullfrog12
Bullfrog12 New Reader
3/27/23 8:18 a.m.
John Welsh said:
Bullfrog12 said:  What is the connection with the "Frisbee" reference?  That is a new one on me.

 Scion FRS and Subaru BRZ combined make FRS-BRZ or Fris-burz which has been modified to Fris-bee as a single name to reference the two models.  This all happened before Toyota killed Scion and moved the model to be a Toyota but the Fisbee designation has kind of stuck.    

 

 

I understand and it makes sense now...Thanks.

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