Ford Triton plugs, WTF! Discuss

carguy123 wrote: It took me all day long to get to the rear plug on the passenger side of an 80's GM stationwagon. Had the jack the car high enough to be able to move freely, remove the wheel, cut hole in fender well to go along with a 2nd pair of hands from the top.

This.

3 worst spark plug jobs I've ever done were:

1. My 95 Camaro Z28 - Took me about 12 hours. There are a couple of plugs you just simply can't get a wrench on.
2. The aforementioned 07 F-150.
3. A buddy's 83 Caprice Classic with the 305. Much harder than it should have been for such a "simple" car.

I also did plugs on a 2000 F-150 (2V heads, not enough threads). I was careful, I used anti-seize and a torque wrench, and I didn't have problem. I think as long as you use your head and don't try to rush, a lot of these jobs are not nearly as bad as the internet would have you believe. A lot of people like to brag about how hard a particular job they did was. Not saying people in here are doing that, but I know most of you are handier with a wrench than I am, so if I can do it, you can, too.

It would be nice to know objectively how often this happens. There's enough internet horror stories out there to know it is a problem...but there must be a million Triton engines out there.

The local independent Ford shop told me they charge a flat rate of $650. Interesting approach. They must have a decent track record getting them out easily.

My advice when I was in the business was to tell everyone with a Triton, especially new ones, to have the plugs pulled and reinstalled with anti-seize as early as possible. Don't know if that fixes anything but I never heard any complaints about the suggestion.

In reply to Johnboyjjb:

Like how early are ya talking?

As far as 80s GM cars, I worked on my neighbors 84(?) Firebird in my condo parkinglot, I vowed to never own/work on a GM V8 car unless I have a garage and the ability to pull the engine out to do just about anything.

Try plugs in a Chevy Monza with a 350 small block and cast iron manifolds... I finaly puller the fenders and got out the hole saw. My 1st engine swap / shoe horning. must have done 20 set of plugs in the two years i had that beast. Never did get it to run right....but then again its the only motor i've ever tossed the timming chain out of the motor on....

Tom_Spangler wrote: 3 worst spark plug jobs I've ever done were: 1. My 95 Camaro Z28 - Took me about 12 hours. There are a couple of plugs you just simply can't get a wrench on.

One secret is to drop the y-pipe, it improves access to the plugs on that side. Or just put headers on it, plug access is much better. Ironic to think that headers actually are easier.

erasmus229 wrote: Seriously!? Really!? Haven't gotten one full set of plugs out intact yet. No amount of patience or penetrant seems to help. Am I missing something or do they really suck that bad?

They suck that bad.

BTDT have the specialty tool to remove the broken off tip, and the modified version of the specialty tool after the tool doesn't quite grab the tip and strips it out.

RossD wrote: So, let the dealership do it. Check. Thanks, Ross with his 06 F150 5.4

The dealership we talked to gets an hour per plug whether it breaks or not. Still want to take it to the dealer?

I think the GOOD extractor tool is only $400.

RealMiniDriver wrote: Suppose a guy is thinking about changing the plugs in his van. We'll use an '02 Econoline with the 4.6, in this hypothetical scenario. Is there a warning sign before a plug breaks? Will they unscrew smoothly and then just snap, or does it take eleven-teen hundred torques to snap? Can a guy start, meet resistance and say, "berk it, that plug can stay." since it only gets driven once in a while?

I don't think any truck 4.6 ever had the 3v head. Only 5.4 and 6.8. At any rate, the problem is ONLY with the 3v cylinder head.

The failure mode is simple. The plug simply will not turn. When it turns, it is because the top (threaded) portion has separated from the bottom (smooth) portion.

The smooth portion sits so close to the head that it gets stuck. The TSB says to crack the plugs loose and spray penetrant in there. Well, if you move the plug at all it will break, unless it's free enough that it won't break anyway.

I'v got about 80k on my Mustang with 3V heads and I'm DREADING doing this. local dealerships are getting around $600 to do it. I can't see going that route.

I've seen stuff on the Mustang sites giving a do not exceed torque setting. Spray, wait, spray, and use a torque wrech to start breaking it loose. If you hit X ftlbs and it's not loose, stop, spray, wait, spray, etc.

I'm hoping for the best.

So....anybody have the extractor and be willing to mail-loan it to me if I snap one?

Edited to remove the hotlinked pics. Basically, they showed my 7 intact and one broken plug, then a closeup of an old vs. new plug showing the big difference in gap and the amount of wear the old one had. This was with 52k miles on the truck. Mind you, those plugs are supposed to be good for 100k.

IMO, if you have one of these engines and have never done the plugs, you should do it ASAP. My understanding is that it only gets worse the more time and miles you put on them.

By the way, I didn't use anti-seize, the Ford TSB called for some obscure Ford carb cleaner liquid. Tom Holzer Ford had like one bottle in the back, it was all dusty when I bought it. I cracked each plug a quarter-turn poured a little of the carb cleaner in the hole, and let it sit overnight.

In reply to Tom_Spangler:

Pictures don't work since I don't have a login for corner carvers.

It takes less time to break all the plugs in a 3 valve and remove the remains with the very good Lisle tool than it does to get all the stuff out of the way on the 2 valve engines.

At least the 3 valve ones you are confident the plugs will still be there next year.

Still an incredibly bad design.

RossD wrote: In reply to Tom_Spangler: Pictures don't work since I don't have a login for corner carvers.

Oops. That's what I get for hotlinking from another forum....

Streetwiseguy wrote: It takes less time to break all the plugs in a 3 valve and remove the remains with the very good Lisle tool than it does to get all the stuff out of the way on the 2 valve engines.

After the first one, we realized this. The Lisle tool freakin' ROCKS.

We bought it for a truck we had to do, 133k on the original plugs, and it had a dead miss on one cylinder. ONE of the plugs came out.

After that, we figure it makes more sense to just break 'em and use The Tool. If they're gonna break, they're gonna break, and doing everything you can to prevent it is just wasting your time and customer money.

Generally if you (carefully) replace the plugs before 50k then you can get them all out. "But the plugs aren't due at 50k!" And? So? But? Therefore?

Knurled wrote:

Streetwiseguy wrote: It takes less time to break all the plugs in a 3 valve and remove the remains with the very good Lisle tool than it does to get all the stuff out of the way on the 2 valve engines.

After the first one, we realized this. The Lisle tool freakin' ROCKS. We bought it for a truck we had to do, 133k on the original plugs, and it had a dead miss on one cylinder. ONE of the plugs came out. After that, we figure it makes more sense to just break 'em and use The Tool. If they're gonna break, they're gonna break, and doing everything you can to prevent it is just wasting your time and customer money. Generally if you (carefully) replace the plugs before 50k then you can get them all out. "But the plugs aren't due at 50k!" And? So? But? Therefore?

Plugs are expensive!!!!!

Never had a Ford V8 of that era but that sounds positively horrible!! That should be a simple DIY job like changing your own oil. I mean you have to buy a special tool to get the plugs out with out breaking them off!? That's crazy!!

Feedyurhed wrote: Never had a Ford V8 of that era but that sounds positively horrible!! That should be a simple DIY job like changing your own oil. I mean you have to buy a special tool to get the plugs out with out breaking them off!? That's crazy!!

No, no- you buy the tool to get the broken plugs out. Trying to not break them is expensive and a waste of time.

i wonder if Ford, Autolite, and Lisle tool all got together when designing these engines.. they all had input into how they could all make a ton of money from a reliable late model engine that will run forever with minimal maintenence, and they came up with the crappy plug design that requires a special tool, expensive plugs, and a lot of extra expensive shop time...

the only people that lose are the people that buy the trucks in the first place, and they've already shown that they have too much expendable income by buying a $40k truck that gets 13 miles per gallon.. so really, there are no losers in all this.

Yeah, after you break the top half of the plug off, you insert Tool A into the spark plug well and use it to drive the porcelain down into the remnant of the shell. Then you insert Tool B which is a guide for what is basically a 9 inch long EZ-Out which, hopefully, grabs the metal shell and pulls it out.

Well, it sure beats having the spark plugs blow out at random, ruining the threads in the head as well as destroying the coil pack.

ive had great luck with getting them out first useing a cup of water through a vaccum line followed by a cup of atf. havent had one break yet on prob 30 or 40 engines.

hardest and easiest in my experience:

'94 V8 F-body (as previously mentioned). 8 hours and my hands looked like sausage.

'48 Willy's flat-fender Jeep. 10 minutes (counting setting the gaps) with an adjustable wrench.

KATYB wrote: ive had great luck with getting them out first useing a cup of water through a vaccum line followed by a cup of atf. havent had one break yet on prob 30 or 40 engines.

Hey Katy, you want to detail that method? I'm willing to try sacrificing chickens under a full moon if it will help.....

ultraclyde wrote:

KATYB wrote: ive had great luck with getting them out first useing a cup of water through a vaccum line followed by a cup of atf. havent had one break yet on prob 30 or 40 engines.

Hey Katy, you want to detail that method? I'm willing to try sacrificing chickens under a full moon if it will help.....

Indeed. I know a few experienced dealership techs that would like to hear this, as well.

H20 acts as a steam cleaner. The ATF acts as a lubricant on the plug end.

As I said before, carbon buildup on the end of the plug causes the plug to break.

You just suck in enuff of each at a time to not bog the engine down. You only need about 8-12oz of each to get the desired effects.