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MiniDave
MiniDave New Reader
5/22/22 4:44 p.m.

Checo will have a discussion with management about being forced to concede to Max - on the one hand Max is the championship leader. OTOH, I think it was Checo's race to lose.....and he could have won it. They'd be foolish not to hire him for next season too, IMHO.

All in all a fun race to watch, and I agree on the commentators - they just never shut up and it's tiring listening to them.

Monaco next - is it Charles' turn for the win? 

NY Nick
NY Nick GRM+ Memberand Dork
5/22/22 5:06 p.m.

In reply to MiniDave :

To me it is a little early in the season to make team orders like that. It felt like a kick in the crotch for Checo.

759NRNG
759NRNG UberDork
5/22/22 6:05 p.m.

If Checo thought he had mad game at that point, he should have been up the Brat's arse for a series corners....not what I saw. And.............yes, he's a very essential part of this team and should remain so IMHO.

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy MegaDork
5/22/22 6:31 p.m.

Checo may not like it, but he knows exactly where he stands in the pecking order at Red Bull.  He is not going to win the championship.  He's unlikely to beat Charles.  He will be a bit unhappy, because he's a race car driver.  He will also show up at the Monday debrief, and smile when the praise him for being the big time team player, then he will go cash his cheque and sleep on his big fluffy pillow full of red bull hundred dollar bills, which are so much softer than Williams ten dollar bills.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
5/22/22 6:33 p.m.

I don't think Lewis gave up after the collision, I think he saw more value in having a fresher engine later in the season than in fighting for a single point. His race engineer team had more info and overruled him - 100% correctly - but it's not the first time Lewis has suggested cutting losses for future gains. I think I'm going to have to watch again and pay more attention to how he made that leap up the field. Was it being out of sync on pit stops?

I'd love to know what was redlining so badly it caused him to give up 4th. Must have been brakes. The Merc definitely has picked up some real speed, the team will be feeling pretty good. Can't wait until the next real race in Azerbaijan, Monaco will be the usual parade. 

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy MegaDork
5/22/22 6:36 p.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner 

Engine coolant loss for both Mercs, apparently.

759NRNG
759NRNG UberDork
5/22/22 8:23 p.m.
Streetwiseguy said:

In reply to Keith Tanner 

Engine coolant loss for both Mercs, apparently.

Sure hope that's not a recurring theme.....wait a minute why would that be happening in the first place???

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
5/22/22 8:44 p.m.
759NRNG said:
Streetwiseguy said:

In reply to Keith Tanner 

Engine coolant loss for both Mercs, apparently.

Sure hope that's not a recurring theme.....wait a minute why would that be happening in the first place???

Now that they can run the full tilt without breaking the car- they may be just undercooling the car.  Given they could not really lay into the car for the previous races, this could be seen as progress....  Maybe.

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
5/22/22 8:54 p.m.

For the full race (just watched a replay on the ESPN app, as we were on the road during the race)...

Gutted (for as much one can be for Ferrari) for Ferrari- Sainz got caught out at a bad time, and LeClerc....  Could have easily been 1-3 for the red cars, alas, Sainz lost enough to get cleanly beat by Russell.  

And as much as Red BullE36 M3 had issues, they gave Max the right strategy to just muscle through like the old days.  Perez knew what he signed up for, so it's hard to have much sympathy for the forced pass.  At least they gave him the extra point.

Is Mercedes back?  Other than the cooling issues, perhaps they should damage Russel's car like Hamilton's- he was really quick out there- note that he finished within the 50 seconds he lost from the puncture.  Granted, RBR would have covered his moves, but for the car to be *that* fast over the whole race was really impressive.  And George really took advantage of the DRS issues Max had.  

Hard to really judge the rest of the field- up and down for every team.  McLaren does appear better, but their improvements are lagging Mercedes', and Alpine seems to have speed, but it didn't really show up during the race.  Haas rocked in qualifying, sucked for the race......  Alfa was the best of times and the worst of times- (the Ferrari cars can be an opera)

In terms of the cars- this was a track that has been hard to pass on, so the new cars seem to be working well.  The big test will be next Sunday- as if there's more than a handful of passes during the race, the new cars would be a clear success in terms of the goals.

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy MegaDork
5/22/22 8:55 p.m.
alfadriver said:
759NRNG said:
Streetwiseguy said:

In reply to Keith Tanner 

Engine coolant loss for both Mercs, apparently.

Sure hope that's not a recurring theme.....wait a minute why would that be happening in the first place???

Now that they can run the full tilt without breaking the car- they may be just undercooling the car.  Given they could not really lay into the car for the previous races, this could be seen as progress....  Maybe.

I think they missed their cooling estimate yesterday, and they are stuck with their settings in Parc ferme.

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
5/22/22 9:06 p.m.

In reply to Streetwiseguy :

But for previous races, they were limited by the bouncing- almost no point in giving them all the power when it would break the car.  They were showing a stat on Saturday that Mercedes was actually faster than Red Bull down the straights....

759NRNG
759NRNG UberDork
5/22/22 9:13 p.m.
Streetwiseguy said:
alfadriver said:
759NRNG said:
Streetwiseguy said:

In reply to Keith Tanner 

Engine coolant loss for both Mercs, apparently.

Sure hope that's not a recurring theme.....wait a minute why would that be happening in the first place???

Now that they can run the full tilt without breaking the car- they may be just undercooling the car.  Given they could not really lay into the car for the previous races, this could be seen as progress....  Maybe.

I think they missed their cooling estimate yesterday, and they are stuck with their settings in Parc ferme.

uh esplain these cooling estimates????.....have they always been a dynamic in this era of F1? 

loosecannon
loosecannon SuperDork
5/22/22 9:36 p.m.

In reply to 759NRNG :

Yes, every panel they open up for cooling adds to the drag so they estimate how much cooling they need and block off the vents accordingly. If the track temps a a few degrees hotter than expected or the cars are pushing harder than expected, it's easy to undercool them

759NRNG
759NRNG UberDork
5/22/22 9:43 p.m.
loosecannon said:

In reply to 759NRNG :

Yes, every panel they open up for cooling adds to the drag so they estimate how much cooling they need and block off the vents accordingly. If the track temps a a few degrees hotter than expected or the cars are pushing harder than expected, it's easy to undercool them

My bad this all aero dynamics not duh coolant levels (liquid)......was totally unaware that this is a procedure to be preformed during qualifying? Hey I learnt something today Tanx y'all

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
5/23/22 11:09 a.m.

Mercedes had trouble with undercooling in a few races last year as well, iir - Austria, I think. . It's exaggerated when following close in a 2021 car, maybe less so with the 2022s. Lots of calculated risks in this sport, and it seems Merc would rather err on the side of slippery and have the drivers manage the car.

Red Bull's pivot to a different strategy after George kept Max at bay was really well done. But boy, Max has to work on keeping his cool when things get frustrating. 

jmabarone
jmabarone Reader
5/23/22 11:37 a.m.

sad Haas.  I really thought Mick was going to get some points there about 2/3s in.  At least they weren't the only ones caught out with the 2 stop vs. the 3 stop.  

06HHR (Forum Supporter)
06HHR (Forum Supporter) Dork
5/23/22 11:37 a.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

As much as i like to bag on Red Bull, as a team they really have their E36 M3 together.  From pit stops to race strategy they manage to make the calls to get the best out of Max, despite his attitude at times.   If the cars don't break, they seem to get the best out of whatever they've got.

trigun7469
trigun7469 UltraDork
5/23/22 11:57 a.m.

During the coverage they were talking about Daniel Ric should have stayed at RB. If he did I wonder if he would have taken over for Vettel rather then Carlos. Or if there would have been one too many accidents with Max. I guess we will never know.

Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter)
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
5/23/22 1:14 p.m.
trigun7469 said:

During the coverage they were talking about Daniel Ric should have stayed at RB. If he did I wonder if he would have taken over for Vettel rather then Carlos. Or if there would have been one too many accidents with Max. I guess we will never know.

It would never have worked.  Red Bull, more than others, plays favorites in the team.  Look how  Mark Webber was treated at times by the team.  Any 50/50 incidents between him and Vettle, it was always Marks fault.    No matter what the rest of the world saw it was always Danny's fault, not Das Wunderkind. I have nothing against Vettle, I actually think he's treated harshly by fans considering what he achieved, and he was definitely at the top of his game during the RB and early Ferrari years.

Same thing when Max and Danny were team mates.  Remember in Baku where Danny was doing one of his famous late braking moves to pass Max, Max totally chopped him and took them both out, but it was still Danny's fault as far as the pink pig management was concerned.  

Checo is the perfect #2 at RB.  A very very fast driver who was probably >< much away from being a true WDC contender, and that's not an insult.  He's definitely better than Albon and Gasley in pace and temperament.  He knows he's missed his shot as a #1 at a top team, but still has the speed, motivation, and skill both on and on track to survive the cut throat environment at dead cow without being either intimidated by Max, nor will try and fight him as Webber and Ricciardo did with the anointed ones.  Look at him this weekend when told to let Max pass him.  No getting psyched out, no histrionics on the radio, just a simple 'That's not fair, but I get it'.  He then let him past and got on with his own race.  Other drivers would either have let him passed, but got so out psyched by doing it they could have/would have lost concentration for their own race feeling bad.  Or they would have said no, raced him, got passed anyway, and got in trouble with the team.  Checo is perfectly suited to the role.  One of the few good things I'll say about rouge heffer, is at least they are honest.  The #2 is the number #2.  No pretending that they are equal, or patronizing statement about seeing how the season unfolds before playing #1, and #2, they just state it, and people get on with it.

06HHR (Forum Supporter)
06HHR (Forum Supporter) Dork
5/23/22 1:32 p.m.

In reply to Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) :

I agree, it's Max uber alles..  Christian laid out his reasoning for having Checo pull over, but at that point it was really Checo's race to lose, he could have pitted Checo right before or after Max, but left him out on those old medium tires.  RB would have gotten the 1-2 in any event, just with Checo the win instead of Max.   

NY Nick
NY Nick GRM+ Memberand Dork
5/23/22 1:36 p.m.

In reply to Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) :

I guess you are right on this. There is only one cock in that hen house. Everyone knows it and I guess playing second banana there is better than watching from home or his last driving gig. 

trigun7469
trigun7469 UltraDork
5/23/22 1:47 p.m.

In reply to Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) :

I bet Checo is looking at what Bottas as achieved at AlphaRom and may slowly become jealous. If you not winning atleast beating your teammate handily is fairly fun. RB is essentially pulling a Ferrari. A number #2 driver is really essential. This championship may honestly come down to Carlos being too slow to cover Charles.

Advan046
Advan046 UltraDork
5/23/22 9:02 p.m.

Ricciardo just didn't have any good options when he finally decided to leave RB. MB and Ferrari already definitely didn't want him. Not sure why Ferrari but MB implied it was based on his comments about MB in earlier years. So with the top three all non viable as options. He was kind of destined to be stuck in midfield teams. This was the year he could have hoped for a surprise winning McLaren car. So I fear he is done for, maybe another year or three pushing midfield cars then onto something non F1. 

We will see next year if the testing gradient and cost cap help Williams and HAAS move up. Then maybe McLaren can move up to fight for wins consistently.

759NRNG
759NRNG UberDork
5/23/22 9:14 p.m.

Thinking out loud.....what venue in the upcoming schedule will present itself as the track where Checko will prevail regardless.....tol???   

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
5/23/22 10:23 p.m.

In reply to 759NRNG :

you mean a race where Max is still running?  I can't see Horner letting that happen, even if Max clinches.  Him and Marko seem to have issues with Lewis to the point they will want to see Max pass him in wins.  By the end of this season, the only fans left for Red Bull will be Dutch.  

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