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Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/3/22 6:27 p.m.

They can drive with a flat rear, I think it was a purposeful decision. You can see him looking back towards the crash while he's still moving on the in-car.

This crash is an excellent example of why open wheel cars are a bad idea. 

759NRNG
759NRNG UberDork
7/3/22 6:41 p.m.

As mentioned on planet F1, you Alfa D and Keith T , there are are TRAINED personnel to attend to these situations. Russel was in fact putting his own life in danger by doing what he did....please explain these kudos......on second thought don't , I'm keenly aware of y'alls allegiance to the brand.....late 

racerfink
racerfink UberDork
7/3/22 6:41 p.m.

Well, seeing as Russell was the one who caused all that...

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/3/22 6:46 p.m.

In reply to 759NRNG :

It's not brand allegiance, it's humanity. It wouldn't be the first time another driver was first on the scene and rendered help. These guys all know each other and they know exactly how dangerous what they do is.

I've been the first on the scene on a rolled car in competition. I couldn't do anything but talk to the navigator trapped in the car until help arrived, but he sure appreciated it. 

Tom1200
Tom1200 UltraDork
7/3/22 7:00 p.m.
Keith Tanner said:

This crash is an excellent example of why open wheel cars are a bad idea. 

Why? Fully fendered cars have collided and taken off.

Those of us driving open wheel cars know tangling is bad and typically drive accordingly. There are a lot more pile ups in touring cars than open wheel car.

The race, other than this scary crash, was a damn good one.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/3/22 7:04 p.m.

With full fenders, you don't get the interlocking wheel situation where a tire face moving upwards meets one going downwards at the same speed. That's almost designed to launch a car, which is what happened here. In a situation like this, you can't drive around it. 

That's on top of all the terrible aero effects :) There's no justification for open wheels other than nostalgia. And there have been closed wheels Gran Prix cars before. 

NY Nick
NY Nick GRM+ Memberand Dork
7/3/22 7:18 p.m.
Keith Tanner said:

Russell parking and running to help was one class move. 

Agreed and I though they should have let him back in the race with a pit road start or something. The reason I thought they should do it was it would be a good show and a good story line. F1 seemed really concerned about story lines and racing when they rushed the ending to the penultimate race restart this year, this move would have been much less controversial. 

adam525i
adam525i GRM+ Memberand Dork
7/3/22 7:38 p.m.

The racing was pretty great at the end but I did notice Hamilton was the only one to make all of his passes on track and didn't run anyone off the track doing or defending. I wish that was the expectation as the racing ends up being better.

rob_lewis
rob_lewis UberDork
7/3/22 7:59 p.m.
759NRNG said:

As mentioned on planet F1, you Alfa D and Keith T , there are are TRAINED personnel to attend to these situations. Russel was in fact putting his own life in danger by doing what he did....please explain these kudos......on second thought don't , I'm keenly aware of y'alls allegiance to the brand.....late 

How about both?  It was incredibly human for him to worry about someone else, realize he was closest and thought of another human being before himself.  At the same time, there are marshall's on track that were there faster than he was and better prepared to help Zhou.  Not sure about the danger from other cars, because I think all the other cars had passed by then, but I'm sure there were safety cars on the way. 

So, yes, from a safety point, he shouldn't have gotten out of the car.  From a human aspect, I can respect his first thought is in the safety of others before himself. 

-Rob

MiniDave
MiniDave Reader
7/3/22 8:19 p.m.

George sure is tall, he looked like a cartoon stick figure when he got out of his car! smiley

Tom1200
Tom1200 UltraDork
7/3/22 8:47 p.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Yes, there's been everything from Bugatti tanks to 50s Mercedes GP cars.

In theory, yes if not bound by a rule set F1 cars would look more like LMP cars.

As for nostalgia driving it I wouldn't necessarily agree with that.

I don't think open wheels make a car inherently more dangerous or at least not result in more incidents.

loosecannon
loosecannon SuperDork
7/3/22 10:39 p.m.

Max shows again how little class he has in the battle with Schumacher and Lewis proved again how clean and classy he is in wheel to wheel battles. Exciting race, I couldn't even sit down for a lot of it.

kevlarcorolla
kevlarcorolla Dork
7/3/22 11:29 p.m.

In reply to loosecannon :

Both Checo and Charles ran Lewis out of track,at least they proved Horner wrong that you can go 2 wide thru copse without contact :)

Javelin
Javelin GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/3/22 11:30 p.m.

Man that crash was rough! Halo definitely saves the day again.

Way to go Sainz!!

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
7/3/22 11:50 p.m.

In reply to 759NRNG :

If you say so.  Being a human with concerns of a fellow driver is bad. Got it. 

accordionfolder
accordionfolder UltraDork
7/4/22 9:08 a.m.

I'm assuming he was worried about him being upside-down and then on fire if I were to guess; that's what I was worried about after seeing where he got stuck. I respect the reaction and love George for doing it. Best race of the season after the restart, I was kinda hoping HAM was going to take it - but SAI getting it was awesome and his dad's reaction made it worth it.

accordionfolder
accordionfolder UltraDork
7/4/22 10:20 a.m.

And lest we forget, Albon took a hell of a knock

 

Advan046
Advan046 UberDork
7/4/22 5:51 p.m.

In reply to accordionfolder :

Yeah after I saw the start replay the Albon hit looked bad. Basically similar to what killed Dale Earnhardt. He went from going forward to a hard pivot straight into the wall. Yeah the Zhou crash looked bad but besides being stuck in the car most of the forces seemed to be dissipated by sliding and hitting floor against wall. 

Advan046
Advan046 UberDork
7/4/22 5:56 p.m.

I think this race most emphasized what Alonso has been complaining about. Leclerc, Sainz, Perez, and Verstappen keep weaving and running others off track etc but not one penalty? What Alonso did in Canada was a little worse in that Bottas was closer behind, maybe. 

IDK, I need to watch the replay but not leaving room for others and all the weaving needs to be squashed by the stewards consistently IMO. 

Advan046
Advan046 UberDork
7/4/22 6:02 p.m.

In reply to adam525i :

Yes Lewis lost out a bit this weekend.

  1. Lost his position made during the first start.
  2. Lost his likely tire advantage win on the hards due to the safety car.
  3. Came out on softs during the safety car and I thought during the live race watch that he should have gone onto mediums. 
  4. Made a not good restart (he often makes bad restarts from behind safety cars)frown
  5. Screwed up into Farm by giving a gap for Perez to make a pass.
  6. Perez somehow didn't get a penalty from cutting a corner and pushing Leclerc off track. 

Despite his racecraft he just didn't catch a break. 

adam525i
adam525i GRM+ Memberand Dork
7/4/22 6:06 p.m.

In reply to Advan046 :

Preach it!

I think next week will be interesting at the Red Bull Ring as we have seen a lot of borderline moves there in the past. Based on this race anything goes but if you go back a year that was not the case.

jmabarone
jmabarone Reader
7/5/22 8:01 a.m.

I was actually cheering for Hamilton midway through the race...if Sainz couldn't win, of course.  That battle after the restart couldn't have happened with the old cars and it was fantastic.  

I think Max should have gotten a penalty for pushing Mick off on the final lap.  Maybe that is a bit too much insult to injury from the stewards but it seemed like they weren't even interested in noting it (maybe they did and it didn't show on the screen since it was the final lap).  

racerfink
racerfink UberDork
7/7/22 1:18 a.m.


Seems Red Bull and Ferrari might have 'mis-interpreted' the intention of the plank under the car.

fusion66
fusion66 Reader
7/7/22 8:00 a.m.

I see lot's of mentions in prior comments about driver A forcing driver B from the track and the lack of penalties associated with such actions.

I did not realize that the overtaking rules are such that the driver on the inside of a turn, if ahead at the apex of the turn (subjective), is allowed to use the full width of the track at corner exit. 

New F1 Overtaking Rules: Explained - YouTube

 

Advan046
Advan046 UberDork
7/7/22 1:24 p.m.

In reply to fusion66 :

I was aware of this guidance to drivers and stewards.

For overtaking around the outside I felt it helps clarify when a penalty will be applied but almost makes outside passes only an option for massive speed offset situations. Hopefully drivers WANT to have more racing instead of just not leaving room. Silverstone allows this type of new guidance type racing to still be exciting because of track layout and there aren't as many gravel traps right at the corner edge. The redbull ring and other track with walls or gravel near road edges IDK we will see. 

For inside overtaking, I disagree with the clarifications as it will create a divebomb kind of racing. I do concede that maybe it will work. Maybe it will not result in lots crashes, but I don't think so. Entering the final turn Schumacher was significantly inside of Verstappen and per the guidance I think he could have held position without penalty and most likely Verstappen would be penalized for not leaving room. But I think that both would have probably crashed out.  Schumacher backed out to get his first points.  Specifically for the Perez on Hamilton pass it was a great pass by Perez and the only reason I figured Hamilton didn't defend more aggressively is he figured he would be DRS passed on the Hangar straight anyway. So maybe he was trying to get Perez to go deep and turn in under him but Hamilton didn't time it right and then Leclerc was right there.

My biggest, Huh?, moment was when Perez cut one part of the chicane to complete his pass on Leclerc and wasn't penalized. Leclerc even left room on the outside for Perez. Perez basically pushed Leclerc off track. So per the guidance Perez should have been penalized. It fully reminded me of Vettel going off track and then almost putting Hamilton into the all in Canada. 

This is a sport afterall ,so if the rules allow it, we will see how the drivers adapt to it. 

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