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wvumtnbkr
wvumtnbkr GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
5/6/24 3:12 p.m.

I think without the safety car picking up max, it would have been close with Lando getting out of the pits ahead of max.  With the minimum time of arrival, I think Lando would still have pulled it off.

nocones
nocones GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
5/6/24 3:21 p.m.

My understanding is at the incident Lando was ~12 seconds ahead of max under VSC.  Safety car was deployed into that gap, after Lando had passed pit in while it was still a VSC.  Lando got to the safety car line approximately 5 seconds before the actual safety car did.  The safety car picked up the pack to take them slowly through the incident at SC speeds.  Lando was still subject to VSC because he was the lead car.    I don't think the SC picked up the wrong car because they dispatched it and it rolled and picked up the first car that got to the SC line after it entered the track which was Verstappen 12 seconds behind Lando.   

Had the SC been deployed earlier Lando would of pitted under SC into the 12second window and still been race leader by a few seconds when he would of been the first car to arrive to the already deployed safety car in S1.  

What played out was he built up an apparent 30 second lead while he progressed through S2/3 until he pitted and then everyone passed the safety car and caught Lando and the safety car on the next lap.  

The SC did not give Lando the gap, McLaren had 1/2 a full speed pitstop or an entire SC pitstop to Verstappen at the lap that the incident occured.  

At least that's my understanding 

wvumtnbkr
wvumtnbkr GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
5/6/24 4:09 p.m.

In reply to nocones :

Yup.  Exactly.

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
5/6/24 4:22 p.m.

Just watched it again, crash happened, double yellows came out, and just as Lando crossed the start-finish line, the SC was deployed.  I can't seem to find where the SC line is for it to be deployed for, nor where it's parked.  But it does appear that the timing was pretty perfect for him to go by it before it came out on the track.  Which means he was under VSC rules when Max was under SC control. 

Watching the replay (on ESPN), when they show the track map with the SC on it (and all of the cars) Lando was 2 corners ahead of it.  Other than coming to a stop on the track, not much he could have done about it.

Add to that, McLaren was going out for an emergency pit, but he seemingly passed the pit entry before the SC was deployed.  

The timing was perfect.

Kind of like how Max pitted at the end of the race few new tires when Lewis could not for a SC event.  So it's not as if Max hasn't benefitted by pefect timing of a crash and SC.

After that, he drove away, showing how fast the car is on race day.  If McLaren can find a set up that slightly favors qualifying so that they can stay ahead of the RBR at the start, they will win a lot of races.  It was so fast out it's own, and Max had no real answer for it.

Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter)
Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
5/6/24 4:58 p.m.

I thought I heard some speculation that Max had some front wing or undertray damage from hitting the cone? He did say at one point that the car "wouldn't turn". Not to take anything away from Lando and McLaren, but I'm not sure Max's car was at 100% later in the race, either.

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
5/6/24 5:14 p.m.

In reply to Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) :

Makes some sense, but on the other hand, Max didn't gap the field all that well before he stopped.  Maybe he was managing the gap, but since they really want to put the car into a good spot, I'm not so sure about it.  Piastri kept the McLaren under 4 seconds even though he didn't have the full upgrades Lando had.

Also, "it didn't turn" was why he jumped the curb and hit the bollard in the first place.

Docwemple
Docwemple Dork
5/6/24 5:18 p.m.

This post has received too many downvotes to be displayed.


alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
5/6/24 5:53 p.m.

In reply to Docwemple :

FWIW, if you were 100% correct, then Ferrari would be winning a lot more races.  They are the most valuable team in F1 by a wide margin.  Domination by one team is one of the worst ways to get eyeballs, so even RBR's domination makes no sense to your point.

 

Kreb (Forum Supporter)
Kreb (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
5/6/24 6:08 p.m.

In reply to alfadriver :

Oh boy, conspiracy theories!  For a brief period the sport may have benefited from Hamilton's prior domination, because he's a likable guy and (literally) brought color to the sport. But otherwise the sport does not benefit from 1 driver dominance. 

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
5/6/24 7:32 p.m.

In reply to Kreb (Forum Supporter) :

The good years of Lewis' domination was (IMHO) Ferrari's accedence and fall all at once, and then RBR's re-accendence.  Oh, and the Rosberg-Hamilton dual years.  Otherwise it was pretty boring racing.  I love it, being a Hamilton fan.  But I totally get how people got tired of it.  

I just find it amusing that there's this conspiracy for an Austrian energy drink to totally dominate a motor sport, over two of the most historical names in motor sports.  Let alone the historical F1 teams that made a massive mark in history.  With all due respect to the energy drink, the auto industry is orders of magnitude bigger.  Like Red Bull's total revenue is roughly the same as Toyota's profits (give or take, about 20x lower than Toyota's revenue).  And when you drive around Monaco, people show off the cars they drive, not the energy drink they may or may not drink.  

84FSP
84FSP PowerDork
5/6/24 8:34 p.m.

In reply to alfadriver :

SC was in turn 19.  Amazing drive by Lando, the whole place literally went nuts for him!

wvumtnbkr
wvumtnbkr GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
5/6/24 9:00 p.m.
Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) said:

I thought I heard some speculation that Max had some front wing or undertray damage from hitting the cone? He did say at one point that the car "wouldn't turn". Not to take anything away from Lando and McLaren, but I'm not sure Max's car was at 100% later in the race, either.

Max himself said that if the car had damage, he couldn't feel it and it wasn't reflected in his laptimes.

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
5/6/24 9:08 p.m.
84FSP said:

In reply to alfadriver :

SC was in turn 19.  Amazing drive by Lando, the whole place literally went nuts for him!

Thank you!  I could not find that data anywhere.   So Lando was way past that when it was deployed.

loosecannon
loosecannon UltraDork
5/7/24 11:30 p.m.

Christian Horner claims that it has stolen 220 staff members away from Mercedes, I guess we now know why Mercedes is struggling and Red Bull is dominating. Click for Autosport story

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
5/8/24 9:28 a.m.

In reply to loosecannon :

Wasn't he complaining of teams trying to get people from him?  Makes that complaining rather whiny.

Advan046
Advan046 UberDork
5/9/24 7:16 a.m.

Tsunoda is far and away the second best of the non top 4 teams' drivers. -RBR/Ferrari/MB/MC/Alonso/Tsunoda 

He is having a great year so far. He has showed solid progression over his F1 career. Given he had such little ladder series running before being sat into the Alpha Tauri he has excelled as a rookie while other rookies have come and left the series. 

I was certain Honda would nudge Alonso out of AM for Tsunoda but maybe the Strolls are on the way out in a couple years. Then he may finally have a top car with a chance for wins. 

Advan046
Advan046 UberDork
5/9/24 7:26 a.m.

Happy for Lando Norris. He seems a good human and also fast in an F1 car! I like him so far because he is kind of in line with Alonso and Hamilton or Kimi in that his race craft is aggressive but not KMaggy. 

Big up to McLaren for bringing a team together to feel like they have a solid sustainable chance of beating Red Bull regularly.

kevlarcorolla
kevlarcorolla Dork
5/9/24 11:46 a.m.

In reply to Advan046 :

Quicker and more consistant then Albon in a turd of a car?

Advan046
Advan046 UberDork
5/9/24 5:33 p.m.
kevlarcorolla said:

In reply to Advan046 :

Quicker and more consistant then Albon in a turd of a car?

ooooooohhh I just got beasted....(90s Midwest High School term meaning someone dropped some knowledge on you)

sorry yes Albon poor Albon.. Albon I would rank very high, very very high. To be honest I should have written my post to convey that Tsunoda has a good amount of points over Stroll and other below him in the standings. 

Top grouping for full season success: Hamilton/Verstappen/Russell/Norris/Albon/Alonso/Sainz/Bottaswithlongcontract/Sargeantcheeky

J.A. Ackley
J.A. Ackley Senior Editor
5/16/24 2:24 p.m.

Some breaking/braking news from Brembo:

THE SEVENTH RACE OF THE SEASON FOR FORMULA 1 WHICH RETURNS TO EUROPE.

After the exciting Miami GP, Formula 1 returns to Europe for the Emilia-Romagna GP. In 2023, it was canceled because the flooding in the region wouldn't have provided the safety of fans, teams, and personnel, as well as to avoid putting additional pressure on emergency services. The venue for the GP, for the 3rd year, is the Autodromo Enzo e Dino Ferrari in Imola, named after the founder of Ferrari and his son.

The GP data 

According to Brembo technicians, the 4.909-meter-long Autodromo Enzo e Dino Ferrari falls into the category of moderately challenging circuits for brakes. On a scale from 1 to 5, it earned a difficulty index of 3 because although there are 9 braking points per lap, only one exceeds 100 meters of braking distance and 2 seconds of braking time. However, the braking power index for the entire GP is the highest of this early part of the 2024 season.
•          Brembo Identity Card- PDF format: Brembo - Formula 1 - archive
•          Hardest Braking Point video-.mp4 format: https://we.tl/t-6SKBwULl6o
•          Hardest Braking Point YT link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxPqH2kAwDI
•          Web news link: https://www.brembo.com/en/company/news/2024-formula1-emilia-romagna-gp-brembo-brakes
 
Home advantage 

In 1948, in Imola, Enzo Ferrari had a vision: “That hilly environment could one day become a small Nürburgring for the natural difficulties the under-construction track would encompass, thus offering a truly selective course for men and machines.” The testing was carried out on October 19, 1952, by Alberto Ascari, Giuseppe Farina, and Luigi Villoresi on Ferrari, plus Guerino Bertocchi with a Maserati, Umberto Masetti on a Gilera, and Enrico Lorenzetti on a Guzzi.

Formula 1 debuted on this track in 1963 as a non-championship race. A second GP, also non-championship, was held in 1979, serving as a preview to its calendar debut in 1980. For both races, the cars from Maranello were equipped with Brembo brake discs, with whom the collaboration started in 1975. The relationship with Scuderia Ferrari later grew thanks to the development of radially mounted aluminum calipers, and Ferrari eventually decided to rely on Brembo for their road cars as well.
 
The toughest corner 

The toughest corner of the Autodromo Enzo e Dino Ferrari for the braking system is Turn 17, where the cars decelerate from 296 km/h to 114 km/h in 2.17 seconds, covering a distance of 105 meters. The effort required from the drivers is significant: the maximum deceleration they experience is 4.6 g, and they need to apply 169 kg of force on the brake pedal. The braking power is 2,364 kW.
 
Elio and Brembo 

So far, only two Italians have managed to win in Imola in Formula 1: Elio De Angelis in 1985 driving a Lotus and Riccardo Patrese in 1990 driving a Williams. In 1985, Lotus had decided to use Brembo calipers, a fortunate choice as they won 2 of the first 3 GPs of the season: the 2nd round in Portugal with rising star Ayrton Senna, and the next one in Imola with De Angelis, who capitalized on Alain Prost's disqualification for an underweight car, winning with a lap lead over the chasers. 
 
Ayrton 

That would be De Angelis's last F1 victory before his death in May 1986 in Le Castellet. Earlier this month, the 30th anniversary of Senna’s death was commemorated, right in Imola. The Brazilian was the first driver to understand the importance of technological evolution in F1 brakes: Ayrton loved experimenting with new solutions, from calipers with 4 pads to those with 8 pistons, and aluminum alloys that provided greater rigidity and braking power.

trigun7469
trigun7469 UltraDork
5/16/24 2:46 p.m.
06HHR (Forum Supporter)
06HHR (Forum Supporter) SuperDork
5/17/24 10:35 a.m.
06HHR (Forum Supporter)
06HHR (Forum Supporter) SuperDork
5/17/24 12:05 p.m.

Looks like Ferrari's updates are working, LeClerc first in FP 1 and 2.  

maschinenbau
maschinenbau GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
5/17/24 1:45 p.m.

Bearman looked decent in that Haas. Hopefully we see him in a spot next year. Speaking of next year...

crankwalk (Forum Supporter)
crankwalk (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
5/18/24 3:55 p.m.

Anybody think Piastri's penalty was a little harsh? 

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