Fun car advice?

Hi everyone,

Thinking about buying a fun car, and I feel like I keep running myself in circles

When thinking about a fun car for me, must haves:

- Manual transmission

- Occasional autocross or track day (not going for any trophies here, I'm a total newbie)

- Cruising on nice weather days, or drive it around town for errands

- Nice enought to take my wife out on date nights (when we actually start going out again)

- Budget $20K

Nice to haves:

- Classic car (pre 73)

- Open top (convertible, targa, T-top...etc)

The priorities here are fun to drive; great handling, steering feel, good shifter feel. Outright power is not a must for me. I would emphasize handling & responsiveness over raw power.

Easy so far, right?
Now comes the fun part...

I have 3 kids, aged 4 - 11 yrs old, that makes 5 of us - 1 car seat.

Is there a car that can fit all the above criteria, And the whole family?

Take the family out of the equation, I get a host of fun cars... anywhere from Miatas, Locosts, Caterham/Lotus 7s, S2000s and the whole gamut of roadsters.

Add in the space needed for the family and you're talking full size convertibles like the Pontiac Lemans and the Bonneville. Great on space, but not what I'd call 'fun to drive'. Add to that the fact that we're all tall - I'm 6'3", 190lbs; wife's 5'8"; 11 year old is 5'10"... etc), and you can probably see the dilemma I'm in here.

At the very least, I'd like something cool with enough space to take my 2 sons with me to the track day/autocross; a chance for bonding and also to fire up some of the dormant petrol running in their veins.

Cars I've thought considered:

Porsche 911s (higher mileage 996 ), newer (2005-) Camaros & Mustangs, BMW 135, BRZ/FRS twins, 350z, Classic Mustangs, 

Are there any cars out there that I've missed?

Sorry for the long post 

Sport sedan is probably the answer.  Cadillac ATS comes in manual and might be the right ticket.   Infiniti G35/G37 sedan too.

As an example, to accommodate the folding top, a E46 BMW offers 3 belts in the rear seat of sedans and coupes but only 2 belts in the convertibles.

One issue with the pre-73 stuff is the back seats will be lap belt only.  Are you (mom) okay with that for the kids?  

For me, my '90 Infiniti Q45 had rear shoulder belts for the outboard rear seats and a lap belt only for the middle seat.  More modern stuff like '00 and newer started to add a shoulder belt to the rear middle.  

You're going to want an actual sedan of some type. Brz and 911 back seats aren't for people with legs. Mustangs are better in that everyone will probably fit, but it won't be comfortable for very long. And if your son grows more than another inch or two he won't fit either.

One thing I'd toss out, e46 bmws have a surprising amount of interior space, even the two door versions. Should be able to get an m3 convertible or at least a really nice 330 in your budget.

I think a good choice for all around compromise would be like this 2007 BMW 335.  A lot of track days frown on convertibles w/o roll bar.  Being a rigid top when up, I think one of these should pass w/o roll bar.  

But, also a compromise...if you have the top down, you have practically zero trunk room.  

The back seat will only offer 2 seating.  This then only means one person has to stay home.  I'll bet that works pretty good.  

E46 330i ZHP would be a solid choice. 

Got a similar limitation on car shopping myself. The 350Z is a two seater and the four seat counterpart, the Infiniti G35 coupe, won't be much better. Can't imagine the Frisbee twins working here either, although I haven't tried it myself. Even a 3 series BMW is going to be a bit of a stretch. I tried this with an E36 328 convertible and there isn't really enough room. The coupe and sedan have a little more back seat room, but not much.

I'd probably scratch open top off the list - there are convertibles large enough to carry the whole family, but they're heavy cruisers. So I'm with John on making this a sports sedan (although most Detroit pre '73 or malaise era cars will have an equally usable back seat in 2 or 4 door form as long as you're able to get into them). Most pre '73 American cars will handle like a pig on roller skates next to modern cars, and the steering feel is going to be like trying to guide that pig by the ears, but they still can be a lot of fun - just in a different way from a BMW. Things I'd be looking at myself that fit these rules:

• Whatever Detroit iron from the muscle car era turns up in your budget with a stick shift. (I wonder how well a Corvair would do for interior room?)
• BMW 5 series.
• Cadillac CTS.
• Nissan Maxima / Altima.
• VW Jette / Passat / CC with one of the hotter engine options and a manual transmission, or one of their Audi counterparts.

Going to go off the beaten track here.

The idea is to have fun with the family. You need buy-in from the kids for this to really work, so get their opinion or at least ask.

Something that you do not see all the time is fun for everyone. 4 doors for kids is fun. Anything can be restomoded with engine and suspension swaps. If you do not expect to win on the track, anything is fun to drive on the limit.

How about something off the beaten path in the niche of say a Valiant. I like quirky so this body appeals to me. There are other cars in the same niche like the 60's Falcons  and Studebakers.

Or go right off the reservation and stand in the whacky corner with the French crowd. If you cant have fun leaning this on the doorhandles going around cones, you just can't have fun.

I went looking for ATS examples and prices.  Interestingly, I found '13 w/68k asking $13k but most interesting, it is pictured wearing RE-71s

Even if not buying this one, it might be interesting to contact the private seller to get his driving impressions and expereineces.  

I think the answer here is something BMW, but even a 4DR sedan is going to be tight with 5 aboard. 

So, modded Honda Odyssey!

$20k probably buys the nicest E23 733i/735i in existence, and they can be found with manual boxes. Not quite pre-73, but definitely vintage-feeling at this point. Fairly sizable interior (relatively speaking), handles better than something its size really should.

02Pilot said:

$20k probably buys the nicest E23 733i/735i in existence, and they can be found with manual boxes. Not quite pre-73, but definitely vintage-feeling at this point. Fairly sizable interior (relatively speaking), handles better than something its size really should.

By Jove!  I think you nailed it!

$20k buys a pretty nice late-60s or early 70s GM A body with enough left over for some suspension mods to make it funner between the cones.

LeMans, Cutlass, Chevelle, GS/Skylark

Damn - figured I had it nailed with a Fiat X1/9...until you mentioned the 5 people thing.

In reply to BigEgyptian :

Your 11 year old is 2 inches short of 6 feet tall???  No mater what, by next year this time I'll predict there are few cars he fits into the back seat of.   Your wife of 5'8" looks like she'll be the one in the back seat.

What about a CTS-V wagon?

In reply to BigEgyptian :

Two cars.  A $10,000 roadster. And a $10,000 SUV to pull it and carry the family.  

I'll be the dark horse in this conversation. 

Kids love the 3 wheel motion.

I almost went the two seater route, but ended up compromising the convertible(s) I most wanted to be able to share my topless motoring (and motorsporting) ejoyment with my whole (4-person) family at once. However, with 5 it would certainly require an additional compromise. I'd operate under the baseline assumption that if the eldest enjoys convertibles and/or motorsporting, this solution only needs to get me through the next less-than-5 years... At which point they'd be getting a Miata and would no longer need to ride in my convertible.

I think it really depends on the family dynamic, and what they would most enjoy. For convertibles, the options I'd most be looking at are:

Option 1: Get a 2-seater. Start a rotation getting 1-on-1 convertible time with daddy. Note that many do not work well with tethered car-seats.

Option 2: Get a 4-seater. Mommy gets alone time while the kids are out in the convertible with dad... The alternative of just 1 kid getting 1-on-1 mommy time while the other two are out in the convertible with dad really only works if this is presented, and considered by the kids, as a equally positive (rather than being left out) for the kid with mom.

Note that while most 4-seat convertibles have lower anchors for car seats in the rear, there is often no upper tether mount, which is important for forward facing seats using a harness. Of course, this is often mutually exclusive then from the car having a rollover protection system too, the lack of which can make taking it on track more difficult... So yay, more compromises to consider.

Option 3: Get a 4-door Wrangler to cruise, and get your tires dirty with a different kind of automotive hobby, with the whole family. If you get creative, may be able to be combined with Option 1 or 2.

Once you figure out which option, then start narrowing in on which car.

Beyond that, if you're willing to sacrifice the convertible aspect, a sporty sedan may be a better overall fit for your needs... As others have already noted.

.

In reply to John Welsh :

The hardtop convertible thing is a check with the groups you want to run with situation. I know that a lot of track day organizations do not consider a hardtop on a convertibles as structural the way it is in a sedan or coupe, and as such are still simply treated as convertibles. Many also allow convertibles with advertised factory rollover protection systems, and some even allow all newer (SCCA TNIA = 2006+) convertibles with more modestly powered engine options (SCCA TNIA = N/A 6-cyl and factory (non-upgraded) turbo 4-cyl) to run as-is. The factory rollover protection system can typically include rigid roll bars like many 2 seaters have, as well as pop-up hoops as seen in many 4-seaters, in addition to the reinforced windshield frame. Personally, I wouldn't really want to spend much time on track with only a non-structural tin-top anyway after seeing a couple of track day wrecks.  For me personally, a hard-top offers nothing over a soft-top but wasted trunk space when in the preferred configuration.

Sporting pretentions with 3 across in the back seat is a challenging ask.  

I dont think any Mustang/Camaro/Firebird/ETC would go 3 across the back.  

Furthermore, if you want to do trackdays, a useable back seat and acceptable rollover protection for a drop top may be mutually exclusive.

Especially with a child seat in the back, you really want something 4 door. 

I think you have a strong draw to BMW 4 door cars (1980 and newer, I would focus on a 5-series from the 90's and newer, perhaps an E39?) for the best option here. Sunroof might somewhat check the open top thing.  Most sporting pretense for the dollar with the must haves...  

You should be able to find a nice low mileage one with maintenice records at your pricepoint with plenty left over (under $10k very likely).    Or, look a bit newer 5-series, or look into prices for an M5 from that era

.  

Hey, look what Daily Turismo found - it looks perfect!

https://dailyturismo.com/ageing-gracefully-1976-bmw-530i-e12/

Any 5-series rear seat is going to be awfully snug for two plus one in a car seat with the front seats all the way back (which they will be). Several amputations may be required.

Sounds like... it doesn't need to hold everyone at once, but it does need to carry at least 3, and everybody's tall. And you'd like to be able to fit everyone occasionally? Or no?

I mean, if it needs to fit everyone, it's going to be a bit of a boat. If you can stick a young and bendy sub-6-footer in the back seat without complaints, a BMW 5 or even 3 series sounds workable. Heck, I suppose a lot of sedans do, but I like old BMWs.

I have a terrible case of the hots for E12s like the one linked above, but have only had an E28 for 5-series, and while it wasn't a rocket (535is), it drove really nicely and looked sharp. Given time to get around to it, I think I could've taken it to a track day or autocross and had a lot of fun, and it was a fantastic sporty mileage eater. You could have a really nice one for that kind of money, or if you dig hard enough, maybe find one that's been upgraded in the engine department, though of course if that hasn't been done really well it can be inviting headaches.

And just to chuck a curveball out there since they're on my brain: Jag XJ6? Almost all of them from Series 2 on are long wheelbase, so good legroom for the tall kids?

What about a Jaaaaaaaag XJR? The early 2000s ones. I'm not sure how roomy they are inside, but they look good and are quick. 

Edit: just saw the manual transmission requirement. XJRs are auto-only so forget I said anything. 

Golf R or GTI. 

5'10 at age 11 is going to be 6'3-6'5+ within 4 years. Headroom and legroom will be needed. A hot hatch is the answer, as a bonus the pack up well for moving people to college or into apartments and make fun cars once out of school. 

Trade autocross for off-roading and pick up a wrangler!  If you've never been off road, I think you would be surprised. It's very fun and challenging, and the recurring adrenaline rush will have you amped up, then crashed (energy-wise) at the end of the day just like autocross.