Glowing Porsche comments from the new issue

Let me begin by saying I'm not a fan of Porsches. BTDT got the Tshirt, etc. My wife and I both hated every minute of ownership. Felt it was a glorified VW.

I just got the latest issue where they gave a buying guide for Porsche. We sat there and read these comments out loud to each other and laughed until tears ran down our faces.

You have to buy into the "mystique" of the Porsche to read or say these items and still have any desire for a Porsche.

To me the best one was:

"While not a deal killer, the stock fuel injection also requires a bit of driver participation. (driver participation?) The Bosch system injects the the correctly metered air/fuel mixture into the airbox; touch the throttle during warmup, however, and there's a good chance the box will simply blow up.

Yeah, that's just some of the loveable quirkiness of the adorable Porsche.

My wife liked the $425 spark plug wires and the $1,600 master cylinder. Those are some of our fond memories of Porsche.

On another car before the owner said "If aliens abducted the car tonight, he would buy another but it would be any color but red - black or brown would be swell" he told us that in the GRM spirit you could get that $1,600 master cylinder sleeved for ONLY $275!

Then he proceeded to tell us the A/C sucks. The wipers suck. The slapped on third brake light blocks his view in the mirror.

Under advice to potential owners he said "There is no place to set a coffee. The car is quirky (there's that word again. I suppose it means living with the third world weirdness makes him a real macho, man's man and the chicks ought to love me for my car cause I can't get near them any other way) and you have to learn to drive it differently, especially if you plan to take it to the track. ALL THE CONTROLS ARE IN THE WRONG PLACES. It has a smell - oil and heat is the best I can approximate, but occasionally you get a whiff of gas.

The heat works, sometimes even when you'd rather it not. The A/C really doesn't unless it's cold outside.

The driving position is effective but strange. The wheel is too close to the dash and the pedals fold into the floor like the ones on an old Beetle.......The radio will never have any bass no matter what you do, but that doesn't matter - you won't get any reception anyway.

Remove the engine is the first step in any nontrivial maintenance work. If any of this sound daunting then perhaps you should reconsider.

Yup, I definitely want a Porsche to sit right by my Harley and I'll sit beside them both sipping on expensive wine and expounding upon all the rich, wonderful and strange flavors that only I am good enough to taste in my glass of spoiled grape juice. This is all an attempt to justify to myself why I spent so much money on any and all of these items. While constantly chanting "I am not a putz. I am not a putz. I am not a putz."

Any one of the three and especially all three together is a cry for help. It's telling the world that you want to be liked or loved so badly that you'll do just about anything to get attention.

I am sorry if I haven't offended all of you. I tried.

rofl. Maybe thats why I like my dads 944, its far more conventional.

I do believe german engineers mock you and put E36 M3 in the way. Like one of the bell housing bolts has a pair of brake lines right where you need to put the wrench. While you think you can easily work on something, the engineers are actually mocking you and giving you the finger.

~Alex

candy azzes.

Porsches aren't about Ipods, where you store your coffee and a hermetically sealed environment. They require a driver-and a competent one at that. Some qualify, some don't.

forzav12 wrote: candy azzes. Porsches aren't about Ipods, where you store your coffee and a hermetically sealed environment. They require a driver-and a competent one at that. Some qualify, some don't.

That's the mystique talking.

"especially if you plan to take it to the track. ALL THE CONTROLS ARE IN THE WRONG PLACES. "

Have you taken one to the track?

I could never talk my wife into owning another, but if I did, it'd be a Boxster or whatever the hardtop version of the Boxster is called.

I drive past a targa fairly frequently. It had been parked along the highway for-sale last year. I stopped & looked once. Didn't appear to beat, but obviously had a cheaper respray, saw an oil leak underneath so at least it had fluids. $10k. Um, no thanks.

Fast-forward to 6-months ago. It's been parked alongside a garage in another part of town, and I noticed last time I drove by there were weeds growing up around it. I couldn't help but think "If I could pick that up for challenge money...", and this article didn't help.

Then I remember I have a Miata in the garage, which also has its own smells and charm, and also starts/runs/drives without issue, is cheap to maintain and own, and doesn't try to kill me when I drive it fast. 8)

Haven't read the article yet but I assume from your comments it's talking mostly classic 911s. I'll happily rebutt you anyway. Also, you referred to the glorious drink of wine as "spoiled grape juice" so your opinions are already suspect.

That said, this is the biggest complaint you can come up with? Bring it:

carguy123 wrote: That's the mystique talking. "especially if you plan to take it to the track. ALL THE CONTROLS ARE IN THE WRONG PLACES. " Have you taken one to the track?

You can't adjust to something that's a little different than the norm? I've autocrossed 944s, 911s and a 914 once, and used a 944 as a daily and never once had a problem with something being in the "wrong place." They are not Chevy Cobalts and you shouldn't be expecting them to be identical once you get behind the wheel. Learning where all the controls are is just part of the same adjusting process you do (or should be doing) with any new-to-you car. It takes ten minutes.

You can get parts for cheap-ish if you know where to look (i.e. not the dealers.) Not Honda cheap but certainly not any worse than things like old BMWs or Jags. Do the work yourself. These are vintage sports cars so yes, they are going to have oil leaks, they are going to be a bit rough around the edges, and they are going to have some jobs that will not enamour you to any nuns who may happen to be in earshot of your garage. So do a lot of other sports cars. Go try changing the clutch on a Celica GT-Four and get back to me.

Regarding removing the engine to make some jobs easier, this is not a transverse FWD econobox with a torque converter and million pounds of emissions controls and "comfort equipment" junked on top of it, all under a plastic disguise cover. They say that because it really does make the job easier. There are no coolant lines to drain and a lot of the hardware is surprisingly accessible, especially if you've got a lift. I once watched an (admittedly experienced) independent mechanic have the motor out of a '60s 911 in less than an hour. If you can do that, why would you try to remove the heads or something with it still in the car? That would be some pretty terrible false economy in your labour.

The A/C sucks? The view out the rear sucks? The stock radio sucks? There are no cupholders? Yeesh, go buy a mid-size sedan or something. I challenge you to find me a well-loved classic sports car that doesn't share at least some of those problems. You can rule out anything British or Italian automatically, as well as anything made before ~1990. I suppose next you'll be complaining that Porsches aren't "light and airy" inside. Gimme a break.

You don't have to buy into any 'mystique' to enjoy them - although I will totally admit that for some owners the 'mystique' is the point - you just have to want something that's a little different to drive & own than every other beigemobile on the road. Seriously, if you want something that feels like a Chevy or a Honda or a Neon behind the wheel, get one of them. More P-cars for the rest of us.

Jay wrote: That said, this is the biggest complaint you can come up with? Bring it:

carguy123 wrote: "especially if you plan to take it to the track. ALL THE CONTROLS ARE IN THE WRONG PLACES. " Have you taken one to the track?

You can't adjust to something that's a little different than the norm? I've autocrossed 944s, 911s and a 914 once, and used a 944 as a daily and never once had a problem with something being in the "wrong place."

Let's use an n-number of 1, and a statistical outlier (i.e. me) to talk about porsches.

Control Placement:
I borrowed a 911 once during fun runs at an autocross, and yes, the controls on THAT CAR were in the wrong spot. The owner had been cursing it most of the day because it had buttons on the steering wheel to shift, and shuffle steering caused it to change gears when you didn't want it to. He got rid of it after one event....went back to V8 American muscle for his autocross needs.

Repair Cost:
Anyway, back to my experience with it....I drove it, but was very slow. Frankly I was intimidated by the $$$ and the knowledge that I could never afford to fix it if something went wrong, and as a result, I was even slower than my normally slow self. Immediately afterwards, I drove my Geo and had a faster lap time.

In reply to carguy123:

While having never personally owned one, the ironic part is everything you've said is everything my co-worker is going through with his 80's 911 turbo. He's driven it to work a few times, and always complains about the next item that's in the wrong place, needs fixing, or how expensive the parts are, but also the smell of oil, due to some impossible to reach oil leak. He's already described needing an A/C recharge, I laughed, and pointed him to posts about how it needs to be cold for the A/C to work .

I know they're somewhat impractical cars, but I own a Fiat, and I think many on this board agree and understand exactly what you're saying, where you're coming from, but for those who haven't drunk the kool-aid are willing to, just because, we're all insane here...

I haven't drunk any kool-aid, I just enjoy vintage Porsches for what they are. I don't want all my cars to seem exactly the same as a beige 2004 Chevy Malibu.

JoeyM wrote: Anyway, back to my experience with it....I drove it, but was very slow. Frankly I was intimidated by the $$$ and the knowledge that I could never afford to fix it if something went wrong, and as a result, I was even slower than my normally slow self. Immediately afterwards, I drove my Geo and had a faster lap time.

facepalm.

I love my Porsche. It has excellent heat, good A/C, drives like a normal car, and I can do most of the work on it. It has normal controls, starts every morning, and has excellent wipers.

It's a 944

Jay wrote: I haven't drunk any kool-aid, I just enjoy vintage Porsches for what they are. I don't want all my cars to seem exactly the same as a beige 2004 Chevy Malibu.

you missed my point, I was saying while I understand what he's saying, I or just about anyone on this board would still rock one

Count me as a 944 fan too, especially the turbo. I've owned a couple and never had an issue with anything in the way of control placement or the heat or AC, both of which were excellent.

I do have to admit to not being the biggest early 911 fan though. Personally, I find the bottom hinged pedals to be horrific. That said, I don't hate them. I suppose I would have one, but there are a lot of other cars on the list ahead of the 911. An Elise would definitely bump it!

In reply to carguy123:

For the record... All us sour grape drinking moneybags polish our $1600 master cylinders while picturing you having missionary sex in your Malibu.

Since you were mostly quoting me... I'll just say that most of that was tongue-in-cheek and meant to be funny to people who are already a little familiar with the 911. Perhaps comedy isn't my forte. I knew I should have just worn a football helmet for the pic.

FWIW, I have no room for a Porsche in my heart either. Pedigree, sure. There's lots of it, and it's sweet. Find a racetrack without a Porsche present- it's hard to do.

Ownership? That's not for me, thanks. (except the 914 with a Subaru motor that I've placed in the "someday" file.)

So what? Say it with me, Arnold...

I love my 948. Has normal controls, feels like a modern car, AC works great, and with the LS1 I have a reliable power plant.

I've driven several 911 SC's and mid '80's Carrera's and while I love the way they look, I'm not real keen on the driving dynamics of the car. They just feel weird, I can't stand the bottom hinged pedals and they remind me of driving an early '60's Beetle with more power and bigger brakes.

I do really like the Cayman's though and would buy one of those...

I didn't like old 911s for the longest time, then got a chance to drive one and figured that I probably would want to own one.

Took me about 6 months to get comfortable with it - if you think you can jump into one straight away without ever having driven one before and be comfortable immediately, that's not going to work.

Once I got rid of my house in the UK and the 911 over there, we're most likely going to buy another one over here.

Watercooled 911's are easy to jump in and hammer. At what point did 911's stop being so 'quirky'? How accessible are the 993's? 964's?

Javelin But a 944 isn't a REAL Porsche!!

Or at least that's what the 911 afficionados say. The 911 mystique is like the Harly and the wine mystique. They all have Tshirts that say If "I have to explain it, you wouldn't understand". In other words, I'm better than you somehow since I get it and you don't.

I've been there and there's no excuse for the issues those cars have or the price. The same faults on any other car people would be making fun of them. As a matter of fact every day this forum is littered with requests on how to fix the self same issues on other cars as the Porsche has. Many times people tell them not to buy such & such a car if it has those issues and yet the factory sold Porsches new with the self same problems.

As far as quirky goes, there are old Saabs. They are quirky in that things are in strange places, but THEY WORK. The key is in the wrong spot, but it works. The car was built in a cold, cold place, but the A/C works. The old ones are ugly like the 911 too.

As others have mentioned the price point is ludicrous for what you get. I'll bet that when the dust settles on the GRM car and they take it to the go kart track it's times won't be any better than most of the other cars they've run on the track.

I looked at every similar car when I bought my S2000, even the Boxster. Without factoring price the Boxster came the closest to the S's power and handling but and when you factored in the fact that I could buy 2 S2000s for the price of 1 Boxster it was no contest.

And what about all those stories about the ill handling Porsche? With the tail end swapping at the drop of a hat? There is a reason for the stories. Just like most cars, you can overcome some of it's faults, but should YOU have to? Shouldn't the factory have done that? Especially if it's a 30 year old car they're still building. Wouldn't you think they'd had time to listen to complaints and fix faults?

Jay, controls in the wrong place were considered to be the root cause of the Audi unintended acceleration. The pedals were offset and when people quickly put their foot down to hit the brake they hit the gas instead. Since they thought their foot was on the brake they just kept pressing harder and harder.

As I said in the very first line of my very first post, I am not a big Porsche fan. That's not prejudice, it's personal experience.

Porsche's not the only car I don't like, but I thought the comments to be hilarious. They were fueled by the

Most of the cars I don't like simply don't fit my situation or I don't like the styling, but I happen to feel the 911 is flawed in concept and delivery. I also feel it's criminal that Porsche should have been offering things like A/C that don't work or ABS that doesn't work, or, or , or . . . And they didn't work for year after year.

Just as I think it's criminal that VW should still be offering cars with the same electrical gremlins they've had since the 90s. As someone said about PT Barnum - "There's one born every minute." Just don't try to dress it up as something admirable instead of something that's broke and needs fixing.

carguy123 wrote: Let me begin by saying I'm not a fan of Porsches. BTDT got the Tshirt, etc. My wife and I both hated every minute of ownership. Felt it was a glorified VW. I just got the latest issue where they gave a buying guide for Porsche. We sat there and read these comments out loud to each other and laughed until tears ran down our faces. You have to buy into the "mystique" of the Porsche to read or say these items and still have any desire for a Porsche.

Let me say it again, I just think it's just downright funny the things people will do to try to be loved, accepted or to try to prove their superiority.

I'm more poking fun at the people than the car.

Read the article, it's literally littered with owner comments that we'd consider complaints if they were posted on this forum.

Owner comments would make great Jay Leno show fodder. A stand up comic could do several routines off of Porsche, Harley foibles.

In reply to Carguy123:

The handling characteristics that people fear are a benefit on a race track. Having that weight there allows a fast rotation and gobs of grip at the rear after the apex. People who are used to driving a FWD or RWD front engined car sometimes make the mistake of driving a 911 like that but it is a user error. The same issues exist in the Elise, Pantera and Ford GT. You have to manage weight transfer properly. It wasn't designed to excuse complacent drivers.

As far as mystique... I never understood this myself with Harleys, expensive clothes, muscle cars, Ferrari, or Porsche. People like to be marketing billboards I guess. If you visit a racetrack and talk with the oil cooled Porsche owners I bet you change your view. You find guys with dirt under their finger nails and coolers full of beer grilling meat. Normal track rats driving these things like you are supposed to.

nderwater wrote: Watercooled 911's are easy to jump in and hammer. At what point did 911's stop being so 'quirky'? How accessible are the 993's? 964's?

Well... they weren't quirky at all in 1967 when there were Beetles and Corvairs roaming the landscape. So... I guess they were considered quirky from the time the other oil cooled rear engined cars died off... mid-70s thru to '98?

Tom Heath wrote: Ownership? That's not for me, thanks. (except the 914 with a Subaru motor that I've placed in the "someday" file.)

My "someday 914" is cream-sickle orange and black with pop-riveted fender flares trimmed out for Vintage racing. It will probably always be a "someday" though.

Well I loved the article on the Porsches, and especially the prospective buyer advice from the owners.

From the " there's a good chance the box will simply blow up." to "The heat works, sometimes even when you'd rather it not. The A/C really doesn't unless it's cold outside" and especially the "If any of this sound daunting then perhaps you should reconsider. "

I'd have to put the article as one of the best done by GRMS, and superb advice for anyone thinking they should get a Porsche because they got a few dollars to rub together this week.

I don't know much about Porsches, but would love to become more familiar. I've only ever driven a friend's 964(?) Carrera 4 briefly and at no pace, though I loved the torque and the steering seemed very nicely weighted and direct.

I have no interest in the status symbol aspect, and am actually concerned that I'd be embarrassed to be driving around in a Porsche, though if I like the car, I guess not driving one because of what other people think is just as dumb as as driving one because of what other people think...

Mostly adding my two cents' worth on the bottom-hinged pedals. My BMW 2002 has 'em. It took me a small amount of getting used to, and now I miss 'em in any other car I drive (and I haven't driven the 2002 in two and a half years). I like that the pedal pads follow the arc of your ankle, and you don't have to hover/slide your clutch foot, and I find it makes heel/toeing more natural.