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AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
9/29/23 12:37 p.m.

I really miss stock AWD rallycross.  When I lived in DFW I used to drive my Subaru RS to north TX rallycross (in Ardmore OK actually) and run 6-12 runs a day and drive home.  I usually won stock AWD, and usually placed in the top 1/3 overall too.  I did have one person actually drive my car faster than I could once.  That was a great learning experience.  I tend to overdrive a bit, and in AWD that's actually a lot of fun!  It's too much fun because it slows you down at times.  I did win my class two years in a row and have the plaques and T-shirts to show for it which is cool.  I won mostly because of consistency (being there and being relatively quick).  I would love to do that again.  Now I live quite a bit further away, and would need to drive there, get a hotel, compete and drive home.  I have two great rallycross venues about 5-6 hours away and I'm right in the middle.  I'd also love to make a rallycross event at the FIRM which I think is about 10 hours away.  I might even want to do a hillclimb in the appalachians some day. 

I am quick sick of having too many cars around.  I am going to sell the full on rally car in the garage this winter or spring after I make it look amazing.  I just don't have the time or space.  I might even sell my trailer then too. 

That will leave a Miata, an OBS, and whatever car I find to be my DD.

Cars I have considered.

I like lighter cars (3,000 lbs or less ideally), and like responsive cars. My commute is long.  This car will need to eat up miles confortably, and often.  I have the Miata and OBS as transportation backups and even my mother in laws CX-5 I can use too.   My wife has a new Tahoe for family stuff and towing if I need to do that.  My wife would love for me to get a sedan (4 doors) so that we can use it for some of the closer family things (like 1-2 swim event trips for kiddo).  My Civic Si is a great daily driver, near perfect, but I'm scared to rallycross it as low as it is and FWD etc.  It might really kick butt though, so I've considered that too.

1)  Porsche 996 Carrera 4 (99-01) narrow body.  I have a feeling these would kick ass on dirt.  My worries are an engine rebuild at some point, the quality of the AC system, ground clearance, and upgrading the infotainment to something modern with bluetooth capabilities.  I use my long low traffic commute to talk to my dad, listen to meetings at times, podcasts, and sometimes talk to others (boss, wife, etc.).  Porsche maintenance is also a real expense (10 quarts of expensive oil, etc.). 

2)  Audi S3.  This has all the modern luxury, and I enjoyed the S4s I have owned in the past.  This too might kill it on dirt, but ground clearance might be a problem.  Also no manual transmission.  Audi's DCTs are amazing though.  I just like rowing my own gears.  My wife thinks this is a great idea.  I think the balance might be way off on these though and it may plow more than my Subaru RS did.  These are heavy about about 3400 lbs. 

3)  Audi TTS.  This would probably do way better than the S3 since it is lighter and probably has a better weight distribution.  The problem is it is essentially a 2 seater like my Civic Si (coupe).  The family could not use this one.  Audi maintenance is also a real expense.  This is lighter than the S3. 

4) Newer Subaru WRX.  Yes, I know these engines have oiling issues historically, but Subaru engine rebuilds are a lot cheaper than Porsche engine rebuilds.  And remember I am leaving the powertrain stock for stock class!  Modded Subarus are the ones with the most issues in my experience.  Not sure if I'd go 2.0 or the newer 2.4, but the newer ones are growing on me.  I also found a video with a guy that had over 200k miles on his 2015 WRX with very few issues.  Fuel mileage kind of sucks on these compared to the other cars on the list.  These have manual transmissions, a good AWD system, room for 4 on short trips, etc.  This is the wife's 2nd choice.  Subaru even sells an aluminum engine undertray for these which would be added.  The newer models apparently have even more suspension travel and a base WRX has 17" wheels which means more sidewall for rallycross (not a bad thing at all).  These are lighter than the S3. 

5)  Let's say I go stock RWD and pick up a twin.  This is my other thought.  Maybe I should change classes.  These cars are light, naturally aspirated, and seem to be like a Miata with a roof but look more like the old 240Z than most cars.  I have yet to drive one as I'm afraid I will buy it. 

I thought about new Miata too, but I really need a hardtop on my daily (lots of rain at times).  My commute has lots of low traffic fun to drive (turns) roads too.  So I want something that can be fun on the best days (not slowing down for the corners).  The RF never has looked right to me, so I can't do it. 

 

So any ideas?  If you wanted to do stock AWD rallycross, drive to an event, do the event, drive home, wash the car and then drive to work 2 days later, what would you get?  Did I miss anything obvious (probably)?  Or would you just make the switch to stock RWD and get a twin?  Or would you just do stock FWD in the Si (it is really low)? 

Thanks! 
 

edited to add pics

 

wspohn
wspohn SuperDork
9/29/23 12:44 p.m.

Be different - AMC Eagle - they were rather good cars on or off road

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
9/29/23 1:01 p.m.
wspohn said:

Be different - AMC Eagle - they were rather good cars on or off road

I've seen one at rallycross.  Sadly I haven't seen it in a few years.  As good as it might be offroad, I'm not going to DD an old AMC and storing more cars at my house isn't really anything I want to pursue right now. 
 

dps214
dps214 SuperDork
9/29/23 1:02 p.m.

986 boxster. Basically your 996 idea but (much) cheaper, less problematic, lighter, better ground clearance, and better wheel sizes. I might be biased but IMO a good RWD car is by far the most fun you can have in rallycross short of maybe a full tilt MA car. And the boxster is basically a cheat code for SR; I had one for a year or so and part of the reason we moved on from it was that nobody could compete with us and it started to get boring.

That all said, rallycross is hard on cars and I wouldn't recommend trying to mix rallycross and daily driving. In particular I've never seen an interior hold up well to rallycross. Dust everywhere, every squeak and rattle imaginable, etc.

camopaint0707
camopaint0707 Reader
9/29/23 1:03 p.m.

rally north texas is the best 

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
9/29/23 4:05 p.m.
camopaint0707 said:

rally north texas is the best 

It is a lot of fun.  When they run now friends send me photos and videos and I really miss it.  It is the most fun / dollar I've ever had.  

ojannen
ojannen HalfDork
9/29/23 4:44 p.m.

I am not saying it is a good idea but a Mitsubishi Lancer Ralliart with the DCT hits all the criteria (especially the sportback).

Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter)
Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/29/23 5:07 p.m.

In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :

Is there a reason you didn't mention the Golf R?

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
9/29/23 6:17 p.m.
Pete Gossett (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :

Is there a reason you didn't mention the Golf R?

I have thought about them but forgot about it too!  Thanks for the reminder!  

Ranger50
Ranger50 MegaDork
9/29/23 6:20 p.m.

Explorer ST.

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
9/29/23 6:49 p.m.
Ranger50 said:

Explorer ST.

If I do rallycross in an SUV it'd be a Macan.  I don't really want to daily an SUV, not even a really cool fast one though.

Ranger50
Ranger50 MegaDork
9/29/23 7:45 p.m.
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:
Ranger50 said:

Explorer ST.

If I do rallycross in an SUV it'd be a Macan.  I don't really want to daily an SUV, not even a really cool fast one though.

I've dd a slow SUV for years. Mustang I could if i had too but it's a horrible experience.

docwyte
docwyte UltimaDork
9/30/23 9:56 a.m.

Agree with dps214, rally cross and daily driver car don't mix well.

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/30/23 10:03 a.m.
wspohn said:

Be different - AMC Eagle - they were rather good cars on or off road

Rallycross is not off road, it is more like loose surface autocross.  The question is "what makes a good autocross car, that doesn't have rubberband tires", with a larger emphasis on light weight.  You can't spend your way to having good grip on dirt, and perversely wider tires have less grip, so lower weight adds cornering speed faster than anything else.

And because of course design limitations, picture the annoying kind of autocross with a course set on a postage stamp sized lot where you never leave 1st gear.  A rallycross course where one may hit 45mph is like an autocross course where you hit 70.  Big power doesn't help, just less weight.

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/30/23 12:13 p.m.

Directly answering the question, MR-S in Prepared because a header is a reliability mod on the 1ZZ engine.

 

Don't knock it till you try it, or watch someone wreck MR times with one.

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
9/30/23 5:15 p.m.

In reply to dps214 :

My old rallycross car.  
 

Not many interior problems.  
 

 

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
9/30/23 5:17 p.m.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

In OK the fastest parts of the course were 55-60 a lot of the time which is quite fast on dirt, particularly two long sweeping turns.  The Subaru was one of the best in them.  It was slowing down after then that was toughest.

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/30/23 7:04 p.m.

In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :

Is that measured by GPS or radar?  There's going to be a lot of tire spin especially in a corner.

 

 

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
9/30/23 7:07 p.m.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:

In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :

Is that measured by GPS or radar?  There's going to be a lot of tire spin especially in a corner.

 

 

Rev limiter in 2nd gear.  I didn't use GPS or radar.  That part of the course didn't have much wheelspin.  It was a long sweeper.  The real issue with that corner and its sister corner was getting the car straight before getting hard on the brakes for a slow section.  The Subie was quite tail happy under hard braking due to weight transfer if you didn't have it lined up. 

 

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/30/23 7:54 p.m.

In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :

Using GPS, 70mph wheel speed in my RX-7 is 45mph actual even when it feels like it is hooking up.

I have gone a radar verified 50mph (might have been 55)... in a straight line down a steep hill on a grippy surface, and I didn't look at the speedometer but the tach was past 10k.  62cm tires, 2.1 2nd gear, 4.78 final drive.

 

I've gone a GPS verified 60 but I was well into 3rd gear to do it smiley

Even AWD cars will be spinning the tires.  It's dirt, if the tires are not slipping a little then you are not putting any power down.  The ground has to roll out from under the tire for power to be transmitted, such is the nature of loose surface.

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
9/30/23 8:38 p.m.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

I get what you are saying, but the surface in OK turns into very hard packed clay in the afternoon runs.  The afternoon runs are always the fastest even with the heat.  Tires squeal on this surface.  There are a few spots that can be more loose and fluffier, but they are not the norm.  It's a very fast surface for RallyX. 

 

GTwannaB
GTwannaB GRM+ Memberand Dork
9/30/23 9:18 p.m.

If ok with auto the first Gen BMW X1. AWD or RWD and clearance. No clue on durability off road. 

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
10/1/23 12:05 p.m.

In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :

Good to know, then, and that helps define your goals.  In that case, definitely nothing SUV related (ahem).  Detroit runs on surfaces like that and a supple autocross setup incl. tires is best.  And yeah, you can get and maintain a crazy amount of speed.

I only bring up the point because I have seen some people even protest a course for being too fast because they were hitting the rev limiter in X gear which meant the car was going Y speed.  No, the tires were going Y speed, the car was going a lot less smiley

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
10/1/23 12:26 p.m.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

Protesting a course for being too fast....  seems odd to me.  I thought going fast was fun.  
 

And yes autocross 200 TW rubber is the fastest. I'm thinking the added suspension travel of the new WRX chassis might be really good.  That and a light set of 17s with summer tires.

Opti
Opti SuperDork
10/1/23 12:28 p.m.

C5 Corvette. Height adjustable with stock suspension. Jack it up on stock bolts, put a hitch on it with a little harbor freight trailer full of tools and wheels. Drive to event, put on off road tires, have the most fun at rallycross, put street wheels back on and drive home while knocking down almost 30 mpg.

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