Overcoming our V6-powered MR2’s weak point: oiling

The 3.5-liter Toyota 2GR-FE that’s going into our MR2–with its forged bottom end, roller rockers, aluminum block and high-winding nature–is a heck of an engine despite its pedestrian Camry origins.

[How to turn an MR2 into a Ferrari Dino (sort of) | Project Toyota MR2 Turbo]

If it has a weak point–and even this is a bit of a stretch–it can tend to …

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I wholeheartedly endorse dry sump systems. They have many other benefits beside just keeping a constant supply of oil - deaerating the oil being the biggest one. Expensive but worth it when used in the intended environment.

In reply to kb58 :

That, and I bet it never gets old bragging about how you have a dry sump setup. 

In reply to kb58 :

Not trying to negate those wise words but I suspect the benefits vary from car to car. I've run my 1200 for the past 33 years and I've never had an issue. As mentioned some cars I've seen munch the bearings the minute you put sticky tires on them. 

kb58 said:

I wholeheartedly endorse dry sump systems. They have many other benefits beside just keeping a constant supply of oil - deaerating the oil being the biggest one. Expensive but worth it when used in the intended environment.

The only 2GR-FE dry sump applications we could find were basically one-offs. Really the engine is fairly robust, we're just taking some extra precautions since you can really never be too careful when it comes to oiling. But even in Alex's testing, while he was seeing dropoffs in right hand cornering, the pressure still wasn't falling below what I'd consider to be dangerous territory. So the baffles, an additional half quart in the sump, and an extrenal cooler which will  provide more capacity (and maybe an Accusump if there's space?) should be all the insurance we need to keep our bearings juicy.

What's the big splined (?) protrusion with the square drive on the bottom in the first picture?

Edit: I did some googling and it appears to be the oil filter housing?  I didn't know that Toyota did filter cartridges like that for their more run of the mill cars.

Slight tangent, but fresh on my mind after talking to a friend. The 2GR in the Evora GT specifically has an oil pan with trap doors that are rubber/plastic. Maintenance schedule has you drop the pan every 2 years/18k miles to change those doors for new ones. 

Our sanctioning body penalizes add on dry sump systems so we are left with limited solutions.  Glad to see there there's an off-hand recommendation for an Accusump.  We pay a much smaller penalty for the Accusump.  If anyone has any recommendations for better oil control for the Ford Essex (Canada) V6 (2003 Mustang) we'd be very interested.     

fatallightning said:

Slight tangent, but fresh on my mind after talking to a friend. The 2GR in the Evora GT specifically has an oil pan with trap doors that are rubber/plastic. Maintenance schedule has you drop the pan every 2 years/18k miles to change those doors for new ones. 

Moroso also has a part# for a 2GR lower oil pan with what looks like metal trap doors, but it looks like it hasn't been in stock in forever. 

In reply to Colin Wood :

Well since it absolutely saved my engine - twice - due to unnoticed oil leaks, maybe a little. I don't own the car any longer, so I'm not bragging when recommending one if it's financially possible. I pieced one together myself for Midlana, fabricating my own pump mount; that was about the only true custom part.

Back when I ran a Datsun 1200, I made my own pan with one-way doors and had no oiling issues, even on slicks. I did though, witness another 1200 seize up its engine in about two seconds during an autocross, but it may have been down a quart to start with.

kb58 said:

Back when I ran a Datsun 1200, I made my own pan with one-way doors and had no oiling issues, even on slicks. I did though, witness another 1200 seize up its engine in about two seconds during an autocross, but it may have been down a quart to start with.

I run the stock pan and bottom end..............the machine shop I use once commented on how stout the blocks were. So a 1200 might not be a good example.

No it was an oil issue with that 1200. His engine went from 7000 rpm to zero in about 2-3 seconds, and at the same time, the friction generated so much heat that his cooling system exploded. Anyway, way off topic now.

kb58 said:

No it was an oil issue with that 1200. His engine went from 7000 rpm to zero in about 2-3 seconds, and at the same time, the friction generated so much heat that his cooling system exploded. Anyway, way off topic now.

Off topic? That happens here?

In reply to Tom1200 :

When I raced my 1200 on slicks, the oiling system was stock, and I never experienced any problems. When I was rebuilding the engine, a friend came by to check it out, and he was impressed with how robust the bottom end was. He said that the rods and crank were as beefy as his small block Ford 302. 

I put a 2qt Accusump in my MR2 V6 where the intercooler used to be.  There's a 3-4" wide ledge behind the vent there, if you don't want to plumb it into the trunk.

Tyler H said:

I put a 2qt Accusump in my MR2 V6 where the intercooler used to be.  There's a 3-4" wide ledge behind the vent there, if you don't want to plumb it into the trunk.

That's where I was going to put the oil cooler 

the camry v6 with oiling issues is a 1MZFE, not a 1GRFE

I had a dry sump on the race car once - when I spun out the drain plug must have ht a rock that spun it out of the pan. Took a half lap before the effects were felt......

A decent alternative to a dry sump is an Accusump - pretty much solves the potential problems a dry sump addresses..

malibuguy said:

the camry v6 with oiling issues is a 1MZFE, not a 1GRFE

Yep. You're right. Too many codes in my head. We'll fix it.

BA5 said:

What's the big splined (?) protrusion with the square drive on the bottom in the first picture?

Edit: I did some googling and it appears to be the oil filter housing?  I didn't know that Toyota did filter cartridges like that for their more run of the mill cars.

Toyota is cartridge on everything.  And good on 'em, spin on filters are kinda wasteful.  And it is super easy to do a filter cut when the element is already right there.

JG Pasterjak said:

fatallightning said:

Slight tangent, but fresh on my mind after talking to a friend. The 2GR in the Evora GT specifically has an oil pan with trap doors that are rubber/plastic. Maintenance schedule has you drop the pan every 2 years/18k miles to change those doors for new ones. 

Moroso also has a part# for a 2GR lower oil pan with what looks like metal trap doors, but it looks like it hasn't been in stock in forever. 

Can't trap oil in the oil pan when it's stuck up in the heads. 
I have been endurance racing the Toyota V6s for over ten years. A dry sump is great, and does the job and allows you to add gallons of oil, which is best. But the cost is insane. 
The best way is to use a 3+ quart accumulator/accusump. These work great at all USA road racing tracks from Banking of Daytona to the long high G carousel at Road America. Oil pressures never wiggle when the right parts are used. 
I also ran the 3MZ-FE with 8 quarts of oil to include what was in the -an8 oil feed from the 3-quart Moroso accumulator and the stock oil pan. Never an issue with over 30,000 race miles on an engine that started its racing life with 112,000 miles. 
You can also pipe in a large oil filter that will help with capacity.
The 2GR-FE has the same issues as the 3MZ, and the same fixes work on both engines. 
 

Bill Strong said:

JG Pasterjak said:

fatallightning said:

Slight tangent, but fresh on my mind after talking to a friend. The 2GR in the Evora GT specifically has an oil pan with trap doors that are rubber/plastic. Maintenance schedule has you drop the pan every 2 years/18k miles to change those doors for new ones. 

Moroso also has a part# for a 2GR lower oil pan with what looks like metal trap doors, but it looks like it hasn't been in stock in forever. 

Can't trap oil in the oil pan when it's stuck up in the heads. 
I have been endurance racing the Toyota V6s for over ten years. A dry sump is great, and does the job and allows you to add gallons of oil, which is best. But the cost is insane. 
The best way is to use a 3+ quart accumulator/accusump. These work great at all USA road racing tracks from Banking of Daytona to the long high G carousel at Road America. Oil pressures never wiggle when the right parts are used. 
I also ran the 3MZ-FE with 8 quarts of oil to include what was in the -an8 oil feed from the 3-quart Moroso accumulator and the stock oil pan. Never an issue with over 30,000 race miles on an engine that started its racing life with 112,000 miles. 
You can also pipe in a large oil filter that will help with capacity.
The 2GR-FE has the same issues as the 3MZ, and the same fixes work on both engines. 
 

Oh yeah we have a Moroso accumulator going on there as well. I'd love to do a dry sump but I'm not excited about the prospect/expense about adapting a dry sump system to a car without an off-the-shelf solution. Seems like you could break a lot of eggs and write alot of checks before you got your brackets/belts solved, particularly with the tight fit of the pulleys against the inner fender.

off topic a bit, though pertaining to oil pressure failure /engine failure:

any thoughts on:

reliability/longevity of the tube-in-shell oil coolers using engine coolant on the various MR2s?  they seem to be made of brass.   do they perforate, allowing coolant to mix with oil?

how much heat do they remove vs oil-to-air?

limited space in the MR2 makes them more desirable from the point of view of mounting.

they do bring oil temp up faster.

no oil thermostat required in cold weather.

in my 7.3 diesel truck at least, oil temp rarely gets >10F above coolant temp. (it also has a tube-in-shell).

In reply to JG Pasterjak :

A few Dry Sump setups from the original Lotus Evora GT4 series of 2GR-FE GLB engines by Cosworth.  Today one would have to go to JUBU or Komo-Tec in Austria or Germany respectively for new kits.