1 2
ClearWaterMS
ClearWaterMS Reader
5/12/22 1:36 p.m.

Update, I recently made it out to my first event for the 2022 season.  This was a TNiA event at blackhawk farms on 5/10/2022.  Here is a video of my best lap of the night, it isn't my fastest lap ever at Blackhawk (I ran 1:23 last year).  In looking at the video I think there are a few areas of improvement; one stay on the gas through through the gas at the beginning of the lap and also not brake on the back straight kink and carry more speed through that and get hard on the brakes immediately after.  I would love to get some feedback from everybody else on the forum.  

 

 

dps214
dps214 Dork
5/12/22 4:35 p.m.

Again no specific track experience so maybe take some of this with a grain of salt. T1 it looks like you start drifting to the right under braking and then snap the car into the corner from kind of the middle of the track, versus staying wide and making it a smooth arc. Looks like you were lining up to do a better job of it on the next lap as the video stops. Pretty much every major corner looks like you're leaving a lot of room on corner exit which means you could be carrying more speed through the corner. There's also a couple of spots where you coast into the corner, I think you referenced one of those? The back straight kink reminds me a lot of the pittrace kink and seems pretty high risk/relatively low reward. I'd work up on that slowly and would probably be one of the last things I'd worry about. I assume your brake indicator is just on/off, but it seems like there's a few times you just snap the brakes off and then turn in. I'd work on trying to trail brake a little bit, at least enough to smooth out the transition between braking and turn in.

Tom1200
Tom1200 UltraDork
5/12/22 4:45 p.m.
ClearWaterMS said:

 I think there are a few areas of improvement; one stay on the gas through through the gas at the beginning of the lap.

also not brake on the back straight kink and carry more speed through that and get hard on the brakes immediately after.  

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmG0GcSv59g

So isolating those two things:

While it appears you can brake later into one, you also chirp the tires going into one. What you gain on the entrance you may loose on the exit.

As for the Kink:

 You could probably carry a bit more speed BUT now you will be carrying that bit more speed into the brake zone for the final turn. Your gain through the kink may cause you to run wide on the final turn as those two elements are staked close together.

Given the speed of the kink I'd inch up to it a bit at a time; perhaps brake a bit lighter rather than later. The later braking will compress the front suspension more and given the speed of the transitions may unload the front end leading to understeer, which could in theory cause the car to run wide on the exit of the kink. Corvettes make lousy grass track cars.

Overall you look great and it's very cool that you are thinking about what you're doing and how to improve. Just keep getting seat time.

ClearWaterMS
ClearWaterMS Reader
5/12/22 8:50 p.m.
Tom1200 said:
ClearWaterMS said:

 I think there are a few areas of improvement; one stay on the gas through through the gas at the beginning of the lap.

also not brake on the back straight kink and carry more speed through that and get hard on the brakes immediately after.  

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmG0GcSv59g

So isolating those two things:

While it appears you can brake later into one, you also chirp the tires going into one. What you gain on the entrance you may loose on the exit.

As for the Kink:

 You could probably carry a bit more speed BUT now you will be carrying that bit more speed into the brake zone for the final turn. Your gain through the kink may cause you to run wide on the final turn as those two elements are staked close together.

Given the speed of the kink I'd inch up to it a bit at a time; perhaps brake a bit lighter rather than later. The later braking will compress the front suspension more and given the speed of the transitions may unload the front end leading to understeer, which could in theory cause the car to run wide on the exit of the kink. Corvettes make lousy grass track cars.

Overall you look great and it's very cool that you are thinking about what you're doing and how to improve. Just keep getting seat time.

thanks for the feedback, the tire chirp was a missed heel toe on the downshift.  It's a skill that I get right alot less often then I get wrong. 

ClearWaterMS
ClearWaterMS Reader
5/12/22 8:59 p.m.
dps214 said:

Again no specific track experience so maybe take some of this with a grain of salt. T1 it looks like you start drifting to the right under braking and then snap the car into the corner from kind of the middle of the track, versus staying wide and making it a smooth arc. Looks like you were lining up to do a better job of it on the next lap as the video stops. Pretty much every major corner looks like you're leaving a lot of room on corner exit which means you could be carrying more speed through the corner. There's also a couple of spots where you coast into the corner, I think you referenced one of those? The back straight kink reminds me a lot of the pittrace kink and seems pretty high risk/relatively low reward. I'd work up on that slowly and would probably be one of the last things I'd worry about. I assume your brake indicator is just on/off, but it seems like there's a few times you just snap the brakes off and then turn in. I'd work on trying to trail brake a little bit, at least enough to smooth out the transition between braking and turn in.

When you say carry more speed, is the suggestion to try and carry more speed into the corner or accelerate harder in the corner to force the car to the outside of the corner?  I.E. "slow in; fast out" or more momentum?  

dps214
dps214 Dork
5/12/22 10:12 p.m.
ClearWaterMS said:
dps214 said:

Again no specific track experience so maybe take some of this with a grain of salt. T1 it looks like you start drifting to the right under braking and then snap the car into the corner from kind of the middle of the track, versus staying wide and making it a smooth arc. Looks like you were lining up to do a better job of it on the next lap as the video stops. Pretty much every major corner looks like you're leaving a lot of room on corner exit which means you could be carrying more speed through the corner. There's also a couple of spots where you coast into the corner, I think you referenced one of those? The back straight kink reminds me a lot of the pittrace kink and seems pretty high risk/relatively low reward. I'd work up on that slowly and would probably be one of the last things I'd worry about. I assume your brake indicator is just on/off, but it seems like there's a few times you just snap the brakes off and then turn in. I'd work on trying to trail brake a little bit, at least enough to smooth out the transition between braking and turn in.

When you say carry more speed, is the suggestion to try and carry more speed into the corner or accelerate harder in the corner to force the car to the outside of the corner?  I.E. "slow in; fast out" or more momentum?  

Yes. Depends on whether you can carry more speed in without overshooting the apex. I'd probably start with just earlier/more aggressive (but still smooth) throttle application. Like I said I don't know the track at all, some off the track out area looks like it might be a bit rough. One of the first things I was taught was to get the line right first and use all the track (where appropriate) even if you're not going fast enough to need it. Then it'll be clearer where you could be going faster and as you go faster you'll have fewer surprises than if the first time you use all the track is at full speed.

Tom1200
Tom1200 UltraDork
5/12/22 11:56 p.m.

I'll rather add than unwinding the wheel to let the car track all the way out to the exit kerbing let the momentum carry you out there. This way you'll more quickly get a read on how much momento you can actually carry.

ClearWaterMS
ClearWaterMS Reader
7/24/22 1:56 p.m.

i just posted a session from this past weekend at autobahn south, I ran a 1:45 which I think could have been a 44 except I caught traffic at the end of the lap.

ClearWaterMS
ClearWaterMS Reader
8/1/22 6:32 p.m.

Here is a session from this past Saturday's RevUp Track Day's group.  I ran a 1.24.4 which isn't a PR for me but improves from my previous times earlier this year at the same track.  Any feedback always appreciated.  

Tom1200
Tom1200 UberDork
8/1/22 10:24 p.m.

This is a tough one; there are some minor things bit at this point I'd have to rode along with you. 

There are a couple of spots where it appears you could carry a bit more more entry speed. 

At this point I'd say the biggest thing is to keep getting seat time.

dps214
dps214 Dork
8/2/22 1:07 a.m.

It seems like you're being a bit aggressive with inputs, especially initial steering input. But it's hard to tell for sure without seeing what you're doing. It could also be the video stabilization (turn that off in the future) exaggerating the effects of direction changes.

ClearWaterMS
ClearWaterMS Reader
8/2/22 7:34 a.m.
dps214 said:

It seems like you're being a bit aggressive with inputs, especially initial steering input. But it's hard to tell for sure without seeing what you're doing. It could also be the video stabilization (turn that off in the future) exaggerating the effects of direction changes.

I suspect that is more image stabilization; i'll try turning it off next time out and see if the image quality is acceptable.  

thanks for the feedback

frenchyd
frenchyd MegaDork
8/2/22 8:34 a.m.

In reply to ClearWaterMS :

Lap times will tell you when you are going faster.  
   One thing, once you have the line down, just try for smoothness rather than speed. 
 I know I'm an aggressive racer having started in the rough and tumble  world of circle track where rubbing is racing.  And passing someone means more money.   
  In Vintage racing none of that contact is allowed  so being smooth  rewards with faster lap times.  Remarkably it seems slower to my butt clock but it's faster to the stop watch.  Plus it helps with the slow in fast out.   
     While we want to use all of the track going as fast as we can those corners often trap you into a too fast entry  which you make up for by over braking.  Then your exit speed isn't as fast as it could be.  

Any corner that leads to a straight,  really focus on that. Slow in fast out.  Tight corners following a straight?  Charge in as deep as you can.  
        
 That's lap time racing,  Qualifying. 
  Wheel to wheel is more of a chess game.    
If you do that ( charge in deep) he'll let you go by and while you're gathering yourself up he will nip by you on the inside.  Actual wheel to wheel dicing  is so intoxicating.  Rewarding, addicting. And you can get that high and low feeling corner after corner.  
 But that demands the utmost  in car control.  Knowing not only the edge but how much of the edge you can use. And how to use parts of the track not normally used to be successful. 
 
     

ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter)
ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) HalfDork
8/2/22 3:53 p.m.
frenchyd said:

In reply to ClearWaterMS :

Any corner that leads to a straight,  really focus on that. Slow in fast out.  Tight corners following a straight?  Charge in as deep as you can.  

This bears repeating.  All other things equal your lap speed will be in proportion to how long you are at full throttle during the lap.  Corners before straights, work out in your mind what you have to do to get to full throttle as fast as possible past the apex.  Usually it's braking a little early and apexing a little late.  Corners after straights, work out how to push your braking points as late as possible.  Instead of thinking about where you want to start braking, think about where on the track you want to be finished braking and keep pushing your brake point later until you get there.  Focus on threshold braking; in a car with ABS, you should be right up to the point where you start feeling it pulse.

ClearWaterMS
ClearWaterMS Reader
8/3/22 7:49 a.m.
ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) said:
frenchyd said:

In reply to ClearWaterMS :

Any corner that leads to a straight,  really focus on that. Slow in fast out.  Tight corners following a straight?  Charge in as deep as you can.  

This bears repeating.  All other things equal your lap speed will be in proportion to how long you are at full throttle during the lap.  Corners before straights, work out in your mind what you have to do to get to full throttle as fast as possible past the apex.  Usually it's braking a little early and apexing a little late.  Corners after straights, work out how to push your braking points as late as possible.  Instead of thinking about where you want to start braking, think about where on the track you want to be finished braking and keep pushing your brake point later until you get there.  Focus on threshold braking; in a car with ABS, you should be right up to the point where you start feeling it pulse.

Thank you @ShinnyGroove and @FrenchyD.  I'll try that next time I am out there.  

devina
devina Reader
8/4/22 9:47 a.m.

The lines in the two Blackhawk laps look pretty decent but there are several corners where you are leaving a foot or so to the edge of the track or to the apex.  This will come with more seat time.  The two 'corners' after the carousel (T3) are some what throwaway but you can make some good time through there but you need to make sure you are using all of the track to straighten that out.  The kink on the back straight heading into T7 can really upset the car if you get on that curbing but you need to get as close as you are comfortable here to be able to carry more speed into T7.  Also, try to use the concrete on the outside of T1 and T7 and other areas to expand the racing surface but watch the curbing on the outside of the T7 exit as this gets a little aggressive. 

1 2
Our Preferred Partners
fiQ5mtM8bK8toYvpcORDOdtc66Hlqb9jS3ZNnVKXEXZFPPraXWrB3ZyRHl7dXo3I