Im going to need to plumb an oil cooler, remote oil filter, and accusump. Probably do it in stages. with accusump being last.
I see multiple hose options:
Stainless braided and an fittings
Nylon braided and an fittings
An push lock
Hydraulic hose
I have a good hydraulic hose shop local, but don't know if an engine bay is the right place, or if an stuff is better, or....
So, what do i need and more importantly WHY that solution? Im trying to learn the reason behind so i can apply that knowledge in the future as well.
I looked into this when plumbing an oil cooler for my Locost 7 and went with pushlok fittings. I quoted hoses from the local hose shop and couldn't justify the cost of the fittings and hose. They couldn't use the hose that came with my oil cooler kit and their hose was very expensive considering it was meant for significantly higher hydraulic pressure than what it would see on my engine. I am also using hose that came with the Cool-Tek oil cooler kit for the NA Miata. I did put split loom over it in places that rub against the frame but otherwise the hose has no protective cover. So far it has worked well with no issues. The Cool-Tek kit came with hose barb fittings, but I wanted it removable so I am only using the hose barb fittings that are built into the cooler itself. All the other fittings I am using AN type fittings with Pushlok on the hoses. No leaks so far.
https://mossmiata.com/cool-tek-oil-cooler-upgrade-kit?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=free&utm_campaign=bingshopping&msclkid=3107a63917091c0e8059c723b6dd9be9&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=NB_PLA_MiataShopping_2_2018_BING&utm_term=4584894773247799&utm_content=PLA%20Miata%20NA,%20NB
I sell hoses. Parker, Eaton....
hyd hose has many crimp fittings and some "field attachable" bulky fittings. Start at 3000psi+ and up to 300dgF on some. Yes, can be pricey.
Teflon braided hose hits a higher temp (450dgF) and is limited on the crimp fittings. Adapters are added for desired ends.
Pushlok are cheap and easy but most say they eventually leak.
We ask STAMPED......
Size, temp, application, media, pressure, ends, delivery.
The nice thing about the Earl's/etc AN hose is that you can make it yourself to exactly the right length. The downside is that they're usually more expensive than getting hoses made by a hydraulic shop and, well, you have to make it yourself. :)
Hey so I actually sell AN oil cooler hardware. But that being said, I wouldn't be surprised if multiple people here are more knowledgeable than me. Ya'll are so smart. Fiero is right that hydraulic hose will probably be rated for way higher pressures than you'll need. Not that that's a bad thing. I doubt anything bad would happen from running motor oil through it. However, you'll probably want to check the working temperature rating for the hydraulic hose. Looks like not all of them are suited to high temp applications.
Only other thing I can think of is the actual connections to your cooler and remote filter housing. Will you need to find adaptors to get the hose end fittings to the correct size to mate?
And yes, those barb fittings fiero used are a decent easier option, they should only be used on non-stainless-braided hose. Steel braided hose should have the anodized hex hose end fittings, but from your post it sounds like you know all that. Steel braided hose typically has a much higher max operating pressure than non-braided hose. (~1000 psi vs. ~300 psi with some variance depending on hose size).
I am up to my elbows doing plumbing on an engine swap right now.
One thing I learned quickly, Fragola makes the best plumbing stuff for the car market. It's all USA made so no Chinese surprises.
I reached out to them for specific recommendations for oil and trans fluid applications. Here is cut and paste of their response...
Good morning Kevin,
We appreciate you reaching out.
I’d recommend getting into our 6000 Series PTFE Hose, P/N 602026 (black) or 602006 (Stainless Braid Cover).
With our Real Street Hose Ends, P/N 680106BL (Str) 684506BL (45) 689006BL (90).
This product won’t break down over time- it should last the lifetime of your vehicle and the hose is good for up to 550 degrees.
Which is superior to most rubber products on the market.
Please let me know if you have any other questions.
Thank you,
In reply to Cousin_Eddie (Forum Supporter) :
Sounds crazy to say it but 550dgF is an outstanding upper temp for hoses not including all SS welded hoses. That's a great product.
AN braided hose looks more badassful.
It's also much more DIY friendly.
Can you still buy boxes of random fittings from circle track shops for a skosh over scrap value? That and a roll or two of hose in whatever size you need, and you're in business. Even if you buy new everything, it's only expensive the first time.
That said, the AN oil lines I did on my car twelve or thirteen years ago are starting to weep at the fittings. I can't even remember what brand fittings they are now, I'd like to say Earl's. But hose is hose, just need to get eight feet of -10 and presto, new hoses again.
AN and JIC are interchangeable, SAE is not. Though they look the same and will thread on, the angle is different.
In reply to Mr. Peabody :
AN and JIC are 37 degree flare, SAE is 45 degree flare. I have "heard" that for very small line, it doesn't matter, but given that most very small line is used for brake hydraulics, that's precisely where I don't want to play goodenough.
AN and JIC have different toothforms, so technically are incompatible. In the real world they work just fine together, but fastener engineers will wince.
The tooth forms make no difference in compatibility, only specification and tolerance.
Unfortunately, and the reason I mentioned it, in industrial applications I've seen SAE fittings used in JIC applications as large as 3/4" hose, and working, but I've also seen the very same people use black pipe to plumb a hydraulic cylinder at 2500 PSI. We (my trade) are supposed to know this stuff. Sadly, most have no idea.
In most cases, in consumer grade applications, AN's going to be aluminum, JIC, steel, and SAE, brass.
This will make a good lesson for the apprentice on Friday
Since we are going off on this tangent: JIC and SAE are interchangeable thread sizes except for 3/8 (9/16-18 vs 5/8-18) and 3/4 (1 1/16-12 vs 1 1/16-14).
In reply to EvanB :
To add more fun some of the hydraulic boys make crimp fittings with a dual seat so you can use SAE or JIC.
Thanks, I didn't know that
I don't know if it's relevant to the. OPs situation or not but one of the reasons I run all AN stuff in my race cars is standardization. Not just with my own stuff but with other racers. If you need a fitting or hose at the track there's a darn good chance that someone will have it if it's AN.
APEowner said:
I don't know if it's relevant to the. OPs situation or not but one of the reasons I run all AN stuff in my race cars is standardization. Not just with my own stuff but with other racers. If you need a fitting or hose at the track there's a darn good chance that someone will have it if it's AN.
That is something I hadn't thought about!
This is for my v6 miata. I have to pull the oil filter, and that means oil change. Which got me to looking at the pile of oul cooler, accusump and filter relocation parts that have been chilling on a shelf.
Seems like, from consensus here that ptfe hose and an fittings will be tbe way to go, correct?
Dusterbd13-michael said:
APEowner said:
I don't know if it's relevant to the. OPs situation or not but one of the reasons I run all AN stuff in my race cars is standardization. Not just with my own stuff but with other racers. If you need a fitting or hose at the track there's a darn good chance that someone will have it if it's AN.
That is something I hadn't thought about!
This is for my v6 miata. I have to pull the oil filter, and that means oil change. Which got me to looking at the pile of oul cooler, accusump and filter relocation parts that have been chilling on a shelf.
Seems like, from consensus here that ptfe hose and an fittings will be tbe way to go, correct?
I've never used the Fragola PTFE hose so I can't speak to that. I know that the Aeroquip PTFE hoses use different fittings and require a larger bend radius than the Aeroquip AQP Racing Hose. Because of that I typically only use the PTFE hose for brake lines where the higher pressure rating is required and oil pressure gauges because I stock the -6 PTFE hose and fittings for brake lines.
The Fragola stuff is excellent quality and wouldn't hesitate to follow their recommendation. I just don't have first hand knowledge about their PTFE hose.
On the Accusump; I've had mixed results with those and depending on what problem you're trying to solve you may need to do some tweaking to get the desired results or, it may not work for you. They're good quality components and I've never had one fail to provide makeup oil and oil pressure but I've run into two different issues.
1 is that the corners can be long enough that the Accusump just can't provide pressure for a long enough time.
2 is that the extra oil provided from the Accusump causes issues until it's pumped back into the accumulator. If the oil that was pushed away from the pickup drains back before the surplus provided from the Accusump gets pumped back then you've got an extra couple of quarts of oil in the pan and the crankshaft can whip that into a non-pumpable aerated slurry. In one instance the crank was whipping the oil up the side of the block, back through the drain holes in the head and out the breather onto the headers.
That's not to say that the Accusump isn't good insurance or even a fix in some cases. I'm just saying that there are some potential pitfalls to be aware of.
Thanks for the heads up.
The accusump is more for insurance. Car has 4 quarts of oil capacity in the pan, no pan baffles, and an incredible amount of grip. And its only getting more grip.
I don't have tine to watch the oil pressure gauge during an autcross run, but after blowing the engine in my neon due to starvation on a run.....
I did notice reduction of oil pressure during the last track day. Wether that was durme to starvation or heat, im not sure. Either is a possibility.
My goal is to provide cheap insurance on the engine , as well as so e more cooling system headriom.
Also, dad just told me hes got a box of 10an hoses and fittings in storage i can have. So ptfe may have to wait, as if its what i think it is, its steel braided stuff left over from before he went dry sump on tbe c4.
