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dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand UberDork
6/13/13 6:57 a.m.

Anyone try it? There is a guy with a older Honda accord that competes in hyper miling contests and has achieved a verified 118 MPG with his street going daily driver. (He drives his daughter to school in it every day)

Another interesting thing I have been thinking about is that I bet it is much easier to take an older car and modify it to get significantly better millage than it is to take a relatively new car.

For some weird thing I find my self interested in trying to create a car for this. Thinking about it many of the things I do for performance based cars would apply to getting good millage (with the exception of max hp) But there would still a similarity as you are trying to get the maximum efficiency from your motor.

Handling is also important as you don't want to slow down for corners and then there is aero and the all important drag coefficient.

It would be interesting for GRM to take a look at this and report back to us what the "sport" of hyper miling is all about.

ebonyandivory
ebonyandivory HalfDork
6/13/13 6:59 a.m.

Interesting!

gjz30075
gjz30075 Reader
6/13/13 6:59 a.m.

I don't think I could stare at the back of a semi for any length of time. Unless there's other ways to achieve this.

N Sperlo
N Sperlo MegaDork
6/13/13 7:08 a.m.

A few years back I saw him on TV. There is a lot of shutting the engine off and such. Whatever it takes, bra.

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson UberDork
6/13/13 7:13 a.m.

EDIT, Weird I don’t know what happened there. Let’s try again.

OK. While I admire the ability and patience of this guy, I really can’t condone it. I’ve gone through periods of hypermiling, but I always try to be safe, courteous and cognizant of other traffic. I can get my daily commute in the Volvo up from 25 to 28mpg without being a PIA. I’m really concerned that some of the techniques these serious hypermilers utilize are really dangerous and conducive to a justifiable homicide through road rage. Tailgating, taking minutes to get up to speed or coast down is not safe or practical for anything other than a theoretical exercise. I’m much more interested in working on the car like the guy here with the 1.3 Miata where he’s working on the car.

iceracer
iceracer UberDork
6/13/13 7:15 a.m.

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson UberDork
6/13/13 7:23 a.m.
iceracer wrote:

Ops, fixed

oldtin
oldtin UltraDork
6/13/13 7:24 a.m.

Ever get stuck behind a hyper-miler in traffic when you are running late? I want them dead.

dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand UberDork
6/13/13 7:45 a.m.
oldtin wrote: Ever get stuck behind a hyper-miler in traffic when you are running late? I want them dead.

This brings up another misconception. That you can make up time while driving. I use to think that if I drove like a madman I could not be late. Then I got a GPS and it showed me that over the course of a 20 mile trip of mixed driving the most I could make up would be 2-3 minutes if I was driving like crazy. Thus I bet if I was behind a hypermiler it would cost me what 5-10 minutes? Life is way to short to get all worked up over 5-10 minutes. Hell I would just stop and get a cup of coffee and then continue on. I came to the conclusion that a car is no place to try and save time. Once you are on the road your destiny is set. This forced me to leave on time / plan better before getting in the car. It has made my commutes much calmer, my life calmer. It lets you relax and enjoy the ride.

I don't want to take this hypermiling to the extreme but I am very interested in the engineering and mechanical mods you can make to a car to improve millage as well as some basic "safe" driving techniques that will help.

Also what cars lend them self's to being modified to get the best millage improvement.

81cpcamaro
81cpcamaro HalfDork
6/13/13 7:50 a.m.

I guess it varies depending on the car how much hypermiling helps. I have tried several of the basic hypermiling stuff with my 99 Bonneville, and nothing seems to make a difference. It is probably easier to do with a smaller/lighter car, manual trans would help as well.

I am curious to try some hypermiling with the 75 MGB since it has overdrive, to see what it is capable of. Previous owner was getting 25 mpgs in normal driving, lets see if I can improve on that. Goal is to get it around 30-32, which others have done with the B so it is a reasonable goal.

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
6/13/13 8:03 a.m.
dean1484 wrote:
oldtin wrote: Ever get stuck behind a hyper-miler in traffic when you are running late? I want them dead.
This brings up another misconception. That you can make up time while driving. I use to think that if I drove like a madman I could not be late. Then I got a GPS and it showed me that over the course of a 20 mile trip of mixed driving the most I could make up would be 2-3 minutes if I was driving like crazy. Thus I bet if I was behind a hypermiler it would cost me what 5-10 minutes? Life is way to short to get all worked up over 5-10 minutes. Hell I would just stop and get a cup of coffee and then continue on. I came to the conclusion that a car is no place to try and save time. Once you are on the road your destiny is set. This forced me to leave on time / plan better before getting in the car. It has made my commutes much calmer, my life calmer. It lets you relax and enjoy the ride. I don't want to take this hypermiling to the extreme but I am very interested in the engineering and mechanical mods you can make to a car to improve millage as well as some basic "safe" driving techniques that will help. Also what cars lend them self's to being modified to get the best millage improvement.

on a personal confession- I've known what you just posted for quite a while. Yet, for some reason, I let myself get caught up in traffic, as if it matters. So instead of 70mph, drafting in a truck's wake, I'm doing 75. And that saves me a min or two. No idea why it's so hard to actually put that really good info to use, but it seems to be hard.

I should try it for a week, but I'm pretty confident that if I followed a semi reasonably, I would get 33-35mpg out of my Miata. It would slow me down AND let me draft a little.

Also, for a really interesting Miata- I've considered a 1.6, with a 3.xx final (which I can't remember what will fit in the box), and a 5 speed set out of a late RX7 (again, that cross reference web page is gone). What that would result in is 1-3 would be really close to stock, 4th would longer by the 4:10-3.xx ratio, and 5th would be even longer since the RX has a very long 5th relative to the Miata. Long story short- accelerating to 70 using 1-3 would be virtually identical, but 70mph would be 3000rpm instead of 4000.

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson UberDork
6/13/13 8:19 a.m.
dean1484 wrote:
oldtin wrote: Ever get stuck behind a hyper-miler in traffic when you are running late? I want them dead.
This brings up another misconception. That you can make up time while driving. I use to think that if I drove like a madman I could not be late. Then I got a GPS and it showed me that over the course of a 20 mile trip of mixed driving the most I could make up would be 2-3 minutes if I was driving like crazy. Thus I bet if I was behind a hypermiler it would cost me what 5-10 minutes? Life is way to short to get all worked up over 5-10 minutes. Hell I would just stop and get a cup of coffee and then continue on. I came to the conclusion that a car is no place to try and save time. Once you are on the road your destiny is set. This forced me to leave on time / plan better before getting in the car. It has made my commutes much calmer, my life calmer. It lets you relax and enjoy the ride. I don't want to take this hypermiling to the extreme but I am very interested in the engineering and mechanical mods you can make to a car to improve millage as well as some basic "safe" driving techniques that will help. Also what cars lend them self's to being modified to get the best millage improvement.

I call BS. I can judge my commute time to work based on leaving time. 30 mins difference in leaving home can make 15 mins difference in my commute (25-40 mins) When you are heading to and from work with deadlines 10 mins can be a world of difference. Also when heading off on a 1,500 mile road trip 20 mph difference can be a world of time.

Finaly one guy going 10 mph slower than everyone else or taking an age to get up to speed can make a massive difference in traffic flow far beyond said shinny happy persons commute time. It can cause back ups and tailback on freeways and intersections out of all proportion to the extra time they take. Traffic flow is very finiky in rush hour traffice

dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand UberDork
6/13/13 8:38 a.m.
Adrian_Thompson wrote:
dean1484 wrote:
oldtin wrote: Ever get stuck behind a hyper-miler in traffic when you are running late? I want them dead.
This brings up another misconception. That you can make up time while driving. I use to think that if I drove like a madman I could not be late. Then I got a GPS and it showed me that over the course of a 20 mile trip of mixed driving the most I could make up would be 2-3 minutes if I was driving like crazy. Thus I bet if I was behind a hypermiler it would cost me what 5-10 minutes? Life is way to short to get all worked up over 5-10 minutes. Hell I would just stop and get a cup of coffee and then continue on. I came to the conclusion that a car is no place to try and save time. Once you are on the road your destiny is set. This forced me to leave on time / plan better before getting in the car. It has made my commutes much calmer, my life calmer. It lets you relax and enjoy the ride. I don't want to take this hypermiling to the extreme but I am very interested in the engineering and mechanical mods you can make to a car to improve millage as well as some basic "safe" driving techniques that will help. Also what cars lend them self's to being modified to get the best millage improvement.
I call BS. I can judge my commute time to work based on leaving time. 30 mins difference in leaving home can make 15 mins difference in my commute (25-40 mins) When you are heading to and from work with deadlines 10 mins can be a world of difference. Also when heading off on a 1,500 mile road trip 20 mph difference can be a world of time. Finaly one guy going 10 mph slower than everyone else or taking an age to get up to speed can make a massive difference in traffic flow far beyond said shinny happy persons commute time. It can cause back ups and tailback on freeways and intersections out of all proportion to the extra time they take. Traffic flow is very finiky in rush hour traffice

you are correct on all accounts. A 600 mile trip taken at 55 versus 70 will save you a lot of time 10.9 verses 8.6 hours. Anything taken to the extreme will result in extreme results. But look at the average commute. Say 20 miles with combined highway and city and some rural driving. Driving fast just does not save you enough to justify the risk. It also gets you BP up there.

It is also a mind set. Change you thought process to driving being a fixed time line and make the appropriate changes to your schedule. Life becomes a lot less stress full. I have a similar problem coming home from work. If I leave at 5:45 - 6:00 I get home at about 7:00 (on average). If I leave at 6:15-6:20 I get home 7:00. All due to traffic. It is a fixed time line.

Speaking of that I have to get to a meeting.

Ltr

kb58
kb58 HalfDork
6/13/13 8:39 a.m.

I recently heard the term "Prius rage" and know exactly what was meant. In SoCal the rule is to Keep Up With Traffic. Doesn't matter if it's going 40 or 80, just keep up. Which brings me to my favorite nit, that if "they" would just stay in the right lane, they can go as slow as they want AND be out of the way. But no, the sloth-like vehicle is in the middle lanes, where the entire mass of rolling humanity is force to part like the oceans around a rock. Grrr....

mtn
mtn UltimaDork
6/13/13 8:41 a.m.

At some point, you're just chasing numbers. Don't get me wrong. I think it is really cool, and I love that someone is doing it, becuase somebody will eventually take note and this stuff will make it onto cars--a lot of it already has. But the guy met the point of dimished returns a long time ago.

Let's just throw out there a reasonable number that car can acheive without any particularly wacky driving habits. Probably 60 MPG, roughly half of what he gets now. There is a bigger difference from 40 to 60 than there is from 60 to 118. For that matter, there is a bigger difference from 30 to 60 than there is from 60 to 10,000.

Note: This is only taking into account cost of fuel. I am completely ignoring any environmental aspects of it.

alfadriver
alfadriver GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
6/13/13 8:44 a.m.

In reply to Adrian_Thompson:

Adrian Do the math on your commute. See if going 65mph in a 70 zone where you are doing 80 will do something that signifcant to your commute time.

My leaving time has a LOT more impact on when I get to work than how fast I drive.

And whether I make a light at the end of an off ramp can easily negate any time I spend at 5 over.

And it's also interesting to see that driving a "right speed" in lights actually gets me through them at the exact same time as the people who jump them- they just spend time waiting as I roll up behind them. 6 of one, half dozen of another.

Bobzilla
Bobzilla UberDork
6/13/13 8:45 a.m.

I do a lot of little things to increase economy.... like looking far enough ahead that I can coast down instead of speeding up to the stopped cars and slamming on my brakes. I am not particularly throttle heavy, coast when I can, use the trans to help slow down etc. It's likely why I always exceed EPA ratings in every vehicle I own.

Am I the guy going 50 in the right lane? Absolutely not.... you'll likely find me in the left lane going whatever speed traffic is flowing. One thing I learned with the Forte is that you can go any speed you want, as long as you aren't heavy on the throttle getting there and it'll still return good mpg's.

Shaun
Shaun GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
6/13/13 8:52 a.m.

I was inspired to a degree by the hypermiling sites and modified a 96 civic dx with the non vtek-yo! d16y7 into a vtek e sucks yo! lean burn d16y5. i added a coroplast belly pan and sealed off the grill opening that is not feeding the radiator. but i added a passengers side mirror because its safer. I manged 52 mpg on one tank, but i was bored stiff. in real life, having safe momentum car type fun, mileage went from 30 to 40 mpg.

DILYSI Dave
DILYSI Dave MegaDork
6/13/13 8:56 a.m.

The vehicle I have had the most success drafting with has been the Jeep. That brick way up in the air is VERY effected by a semi's wake. I can also be a bit further back than in cars (but still too close). To the point where on flat ground I can let the semi's pull me around in neutral while my foot hovers over the brake pedal.

Sky_Render
Sky_Render Dork
6/13/13 8:56 a.m.

My commute in my Toyolla takes 45 minutes, because I drive 60-65 mph.

My commute in my Mustang takes just over 35 minutes, because I drive 70-80 mph.

Also, 10 minutes is the difference between being on time and being late. And don't act like holding up traffic by "hypermiling" 10 mph or more below the traffic speed is a safe driving practice. It isn't.

Zomby Woof
Zomby Woof UberDork
6/13/13 8:56 a.m.
alfadriver wrote: Also, for a really interesting Miata- I've considered a 1.6, with a 3.xx final (which I can't remember what will fit in the box), and a 5 speed set out of a late RX7 (again, that cross reference web page is gone). What that would result in is 1-3 would be really close to stock, 4th would longer by the 4:10-3.xx ratio, and 5th would be even longer since the RX has a very long 5th relative to the Miata. Long story short- accelerating to 70 using 1-3 would be virtually identical, but 70mph would be 3000rpm instead of 4000.

Lower RPM doesn't always equate to better fuel economy. I've tried telling the Metro crowd (and they're VERY serious about FE) that, but they've insisted on learning the hard way. They have some excellent final drive options and rarely does it make a positive difference in fuel economy. Typically it makes it worse. My Swift GT uses the same amount of fuel on the highway in 4th as it does in 5th (.75-1 vs 1-1) despite the RPM difference.

Shaun
Shaun GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
6/13/13 8:57 a.m.
alfadriver wrote: And it's also interesting to see that driving a "right speed" in lights actually gets me through them at the exact same time as the people who jump them- they just spend time waiting as I roll up behind them. 6 of one, half dozen of another.

Visiting my folks in LA recently I read that coordinated light timing had been unleashed across the LA basin. Go the speed limit, make the lights. Why didn't I think of that years ago? Anyway, that is a massive systemic efficiency improvement.

Sky_Render
Sky_Render Dork
6/13/13 9:00 a.m.
Zomby Woof wrote: Lower RPM doesn't always equate to better fuel economy. I've tried telling the Metro crowd (and they're VERY serious about FE) that, but they've insisted on learning the hard way. They have some excellent final drive options and rarely does it make a positive difference in fuel economy. Typically it makes it worse. My Swift GT uses the same amount of fuel on the highway in 4th as it does in 5th (.75-1 vs 1-1) despite the RPM difference.

Correct. Because at a higher RPM, you are presumably making more power and thus do not have to open the throttle as much.

As an example, I have two methods of getting to work: the Interstate and a US highway. Both go over 2 mountains and are exactly 30 miles. The average speed on the US highway is 50 mph; on the Interstate it is 65 mph.

I get better fuel economy on the Interstate, because at 65 mph, I do not have to downshift nearly as often to go up the hills. Although I am running at a lower RPM on the back road, I have to give the car more throttle to get up the hills.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
6/13/13 9:07 a.m.

I think hypermilers are technically very interesting, like landspeeders. Similarly it's not a lot of fun for the money, but what's very different is that you can still DD a hypermiler.

I used to use those techniques with the 'rolla while I was in university, that's how I'd save up gas to take to the track.

Bobzilla
Bobzilla UberDork
6/13/13 9:10 a.m.
Zomby Woof wrote:
alfadriver wrote: Also, for a really interesting Miata- I've considered a 1.6, with a 3.xx final (which I can't remember what will fit in the box), and a 5 speed set out of a late RX7 (again, that cross reference web page is gone). What that would result in is 1-3 would be really close to stock, 4th would longer by the 4:10-3.xx ratio, and 5th would be even longer since the RX has a very long 5th relative to the Miata. Long story short- accelerating to 70 using 1-3 would be virtually identical, but 70mph would be 3000rpm instead of 4000.
Lower RPM doesn't always equate to better fuel economy. I've tried telling the Metro crowd (and they're VERY serious about FE) that, but they've insisted on learning the hard way. They have some excellent final drive options and rarely does it make a positive difference in fuel economy. Typically it makes it worse. My Swift GT uses the same amount of fuel on the highway in 4th as it does in 5th (.75-1 vs 1-1) despite the RPM difference.

Yeah, to make use of a lower gear, you need more torque. That is something that I enjoy with the truck and the Forte. Truck will sit all day at 75mpg at 1800 rpms and sip the fuel as long as there's not a headwind. Put a 15-20mph head wind in and that 4.8 starts to hurt for economy because the rear end is then too tall.

The Forte sits at 2500rpms at 80. 23xx at 75. But the "big" 2.4 makes enough power down there that pulling it's wedge shaped 2700lbs is no big deal.

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