Who wouldn’t want a competition tire that provides the full Unfair Advantage–something wider, stickier and, ultimately, faster than the rest of the field?
Earlier this year, we heard rumblings of such a tire: a breakout 200tw model, one that would push the limits of motorsports rules restrictions and be available in some unique sizes.
A comparison photo circulated online further …
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O boy...this will get interesting lol
Hm. I remember the discussions about this 15 years ago and the predictions that someone would make "cheater tires", or even the suggestion that Hoosier could just make their normal tires with "200" molded on the side. The response was that if this happened then SCCA would have a tire exclusion list.
So... does this P1 get to be the first tire on that list? :)
Good info in this article, and it gives me things to think about. If a 245 is pinched on a 9" rim, then my 10" Bassettts should be perfect with a 245 tire. But I can find 275 Hoosier take-offs, or get 285 Vitours if I feel like throwing money at a Challenge car, and both choices will exhibit some pinching ,no doubt. Things to mull over while the car is being finished........
This tire really seems to exist on a risk/reward curve. Yes, it's fast. But can you rely on being able to get them when you need them? Will the importer's troubled history with multiple sanctioning bodies be an issue? Will limited supply mean tire hoarding? Is any of their production scalable?
The speed is impressive, but, man, there's a LOT of variables in play here.
In reply to JG Pasterjak :
Replace "importer" with "manufacturer" and your questions could easily be applied to Hoosier 
I would consider trying a set if they were not in these odd short 15" sizes.
Gimme some 195/55, 205/50 or 225/45
gumby said:In reply to JG Pasterjak :
Replace "importer" with "manufacturer" and your questions could easily be applied to Hoosier
Not any more.
Hoosier is now part of Continental, which brings with it a whole host of internal requirements for any tire that is built and sold to the public. In fact, the 200tw tire that Hoosier was developing five or so years ago was scrapped when Conti bought them and handed them that list of requirements.
It wasn't until a few years later that Conti Germany, who is plenty experienced with building street tires to those specs and those of the EU and US DOT, dusted off that design and built the tire (Extreme Contact Force). It is was more Conti than Hoosier, though. About the only Hoosier left in it is the basic compound... it is a derivative of the R7 rubber.
Can Valafar get banned without even driving this time?
Will be interesting to see.
A052s were pretty unobtainium before the RE-71RS came out. Atleast in the sizes I was shopping. These are about $20 less a tire than A052s in 235/40/18s. Also a pretty nice contingency if you win class at Nats. Wonder if this will be the new hot rear tire for "mixed" fwd setups
The last 200TW test on CRS ver. 2 which was prior to solo Nat's seemed to indicate they maybe hot ticket for AX. I realize test was in road course. Results from Nationals indicate A052 was dominate in most street tire class. Was that due to Nankang inability to generate enough heat for AX or some other reason? I'm about to pull trigger on some new AX rubber for my STS Miata. Though I mainly go to local events in Central Florida I would still like a very competitive tire. That said I didn't care for the heat soaking of my A052's.
StanO87 said:The last 200TW test on CRS ver. 2 which was prior to solo Nat's seemed to indicate they maybe hot ticket for AX. I realize test was in road course. Results from Nationals indicate A052 was dominate in most street tire class. Was that due to Nankang inability to generate enough heat for AX or some other reason? I'm about to pull trigger on some new AX rubber for my STS Miata. Though I mainly go to local events in Central Florida I would still like a very competitive tire. That said I didn't care for the heat soaking of my A052's.
Uh...we were pretty clear in the CRS V2 test that it would NOT likely be the hot ticket for autocross unless you were running in high ambient temps or lots of back-to-back runs (e.g. Pro Solo).
Prior to the P1, there has been a pretty solid status quo at the 200tw pointy end for both autocross and time trials, with the A052, RE71RS and CRS V2 being able to deliver similar times. But each has some very different heat profiles. A052 needs none and falls off with too much. CRS needs lots and rarely falls off. RE71RS is in the middle. But if you only need one good lap or pass, and have the means to get the tire to it's optimal window, all of those models can deliver that one lap/run.
codrus (Forum Supporter) said:Hm. I remember the discussions about this 15 years ago and the predictions that someone would make "cheater tires", or even the suggestion that Hoosier could just make their normal tires with "200" molded on the side. The response was that if this happened then SCCA would have a tire exclusion list.
So... does this P1 get to be the first tire on that list? :)
Hasn't the Michelin PSC2 already made the list?
It seems that some take the 200tw rating to be some authentic, defendable single number. The reality differs substantially. For any tire, there is a range of defendable tw ratings generated by testing data and it becomes as much of a marketing decision as an engineering one. In the case of the P1, it wouldn't surprise me if the realistically defendable range from engineering tests was something like 120-200. So the small company rolls the dice and takes on the business risk knowing that they are at the outer margins of what they could support via repeatable data. Larger companies (especially Bridgestone and Continental) typically act much more conservatively and tend to use compounds where 200tw is at the other end of the range (say on the RE71RS, more like 180-240 based on testing data). Unless or until there is independent testing in controlled conditions, you'll never really get to a very level playing field with this approach.
Wait, a 285/30/17???? Tell. Me. Mo.
Well the Exocet needs new tires for next season anyway, and it's only 1600 lbs with me in it. Makes me wonder how quickly this would come up to temp. The thought of an 11"+ wide tire on all four corners makes me giggle a bit, I might finally need to up the power in this thing...
P1 will definitely be on the list now.
thanks for this test
malibuguy said:I would consider trying a set if they were not in these odd short 15" sizes.
Gimme some 195/55, 205/50 or 225/45
E Street drivers need something that can be run on a 15x6 wheel. There were 17 of us in E Street at the Tour event in Moultrie last weekend, so I think we might be a good portion of the market.
My take-away is this: "It does not tolerate overdriving, rewarding instead those with precise skills."
Yeah... that counts me out. I need one of those "tolerates ham-fisted driving" tires. Which is why I like the Dunlop Direzza. It seems to tolerate my lack of practice.
Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:My take-away is this: "It does not tolerate overdriving, rewarding instead those with precise skills."
Yeah... that counts me out. I need one of those "tolerates ham-fisted driving" tires. Which is why I like the Dunlop Direzza. It seems to tolerate my lack of practice.
You and me both (though I prefer Falkens).
BDG said:Can Valafar get banned without even driving this time?
Apparently so.
NONE of the tires come in f345 size larger than an 18 except for the v1... So folks running BIG cars with Big ceramic brakes with a 19 or larger rim good luck have no Premier choice no a053, NO 71 RS Just saying
mcynet said:NONE of the tires come in f345 size larger than an 18 except for the v1... So folks running BIG cars with Big ceramic brakes with a 19 or larger rim good luck have no Premier choice no a053, NO 71 RS Just saying
The Vitour P1 was only made in 2 sizes, both for 15" wheels.
Javelin said:mcynet said:NONE of the tires come in f345 size larger than an 18 except for the v1...
The Vitour P1 was only made in 2 sizes, both for 15" wheels.
Lots more sizes in country as of last month.
https://vudevelopment.com/product/vitour-tempesta-p1-now-in-stock/
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