Judging swap quality in an unfamiliar platform (944/968 content)

http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/cto/5535471450.html

This has been listed locally for about a month with no takers. It's a 944 with what sounds like a bunch of stuff from a wrecked 968 swapped in, including the 3.0 engine. Considering you can't touch a 968 for under $8k, this 944 seems like it could be a bargain at $4k or less.

Problem is, I know very little about these. I'm just looking for a track car project under the $5k mark. The value of this setup seems like it would be extraordinary if I could pick it up for about $3k, but it's tough to judge the quality of someone else's work on an unfamiliar platform. The guy seems to know a thing or two about the 944/968 although his typing may not be the best.

What do you guys think about this? I'm sure it's best to just ignore something like this if you aren't familiar with the platform. It just seems like a LOT of car for the money so I figured I'd get the hive opinion.

I traded an engineless shell of a car for a a complete 944 turbo with bucketloads of spares. The only catch: Spun bearing(s). It's such a pain to work on, I've not touched it in a year and a half. Though, that might be because I have easier/more fun/more worthwhile projects to keep me busy.

The 968 engine is just a bigger version of the 944 engine, so it's a bolt-up swap. I'd much rather work on an NA car than on my turbo. If you need to pull the engine, I feel bad for you, because that will take longer than whatever work you will do to it. I've heard of shops charging 24 hours labor to change a clutch. I've also heard of someone paying $7000 (Canadian) for a mild engine rebuild.

Having driven 944s that didn't belong to me, they're solid cars. Getting behind the wheel of an S2 this past weekend makes me want to put some wrenches on mine, but I refuse to pull the engine without first buying a lift which means I need a real garage. I say call the guy, see the car, drive it. If there's any drivetrain issues, get ready to either spend long hours or big dollars.

An engine R and R is 8 hours on a 944. If a shop charges anove 12 they are asshats. If you really want to know about these, hook up with the 44cup guys. They really know how to turn wrenches on these. To make any of them track worthy, you do have to do some engine mods and if you're paying a tech, figure 2k minimum to start.

This would solely be a self-wrenching type project and certainly never be a DD. About to close on a home with a big garage so I need something to fill it up with!

I have a ton of spridget parts that I'd sell dirt cheap. Buy a sprite or midget racer and come here for a TON of spares (and I mean TON as I guarantee its more than 2000#s worth)

I just looked up the cam chain job on the Variocam engine and hoo boy

I'll be treading carefully with this one. Gonna call the guy if it's still around in a few weeks and pick his brain for more info.

Cactus wrote: I traded an engineless shell of a car for a a complete 944 turbo with bucketloads of spares. The only catch: Spun bearing(s). It's such a pain to work on, I've not touched it in a year and a half. Though, that might be because I have easier/more fun/more worthwhile projects to keep me busy. The 968 engine is just a bigger version of the 944 engine, so it's a bolt-up swap. I'd much rather work on an NA car than on my turbo. If you need to pull the engine, I feel bad for you, because that will take longer than whatever work you will do to it. I've heard of shops charging 24 hours labor to change a clutch. I've also heard of someone paying $7000 (Canadian) for a mild engine rebuild. Having driven 944s that didn't belong to me, they're solid cars. Getting behind the wheel of an S2 this past weekend makes me want to put some wrenches on mine, but I refuse to pull the engine without first buying a lift which means I need a real garage. I say call the guy, see the car, drive it. If there's any drivetrain issues, get ready to either spend long hours or big dollars.

You're being a bit of a wussy. The engines go in and come out pretty damned easy with a good cherry picker.

The crossover pipe on the turbo cars make things a bit harder to work on, but 944 racers yank motors all the time for routine maintenance in the off season and most have a basic garage.

Take your time, label, take pictures and get after it.

pointofdeparture wrote: I just looked up the cam chain job on the Variocam engine and hoo boy I'll be treading carefully with this one. Gonna call the guy if it's still around in a few weeks and pick his brain for more info.

Assuming that IS a variocam engine, it could be from a 944 S2 which is essentially the same motor without the variocam and a different intake manifold.

Here's some info on 944 and 16V maintenance:

http://www.clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/eng-04.htm

http://www.clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/eng-05.htm

http://www.clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/eng-06.htm

http://www.clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/eng-10.htm

http://www.clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/cam-04.htm

The 16V cam chain tensioner generally lasts to about 100,000 miles, so really you would do it maybe 3 times during the life of the engine?

Stefan (Not Bruce) wrote: You're being a bit of a wussy. The engines go in and come out pretty damned easy with a good cherry picker. The crossover pipe on the turbo cars make things a bit harder to work on, but 944 racers yank motors all the time for routine maintenance in the off season and most have a basic garage. Take your time, label, take pictures and get after it.

You might have a point, but I do have other projects to work on with already paid for parts. This one was put on the back burner for mostly financial reasons. That and old BMWs are actually fun to work on.

Cactus wrote:

Stefan (Not Bruce) wrote: You're being a bit of a wussy. The engines go in and come out pretty damned easy with a good cherry picker. The crossover pipe on the turbo cars make things a bit harder to work on, but 944 racers yank motors all the time for routine maintenance in the off season and most have a basic garage. Take your time, label, take pictures and get after it.

You might have a point, but I do have other projects to work on with already paid for parts. This one was put on the back burner for mostly financial reasons. That and old BMWs are actually fun to work on.

You must have different BMWs than I do. I would gladly trade working on this 740iL with working on a 944 or 968 :)

In reply to Cactus:

So is there a specific number of dead presidents that would you would consider trading for the 951?

dean1484 wrote: In reply to Cactus: So is there a specific number of dead presidents that would you would consider trading for the 951?

There was once, but I'm probably going to start working on it again at some point this year.

$5500 968.

https://nashville.craigslist.org/cto/5570937648.html

Cotton wrote: $5500 968. https://nashville.craigslist.org/cto/5570937648.html

Hope the cam chain tensioner was done. That's the Achilles heel of the motor. If the work was done correctly, that's a good deal.