lightest route to 400HP

Lookie here, scroll down to a table of weights and power figures
Rolls Royce-Allison 250-C20B

I dont think a turbine would make for a very drivable car, they aren't very responsive. Plus they are a bit pricey....

It would seem to me if you either went with 300 hp or 500 hp it would make this a simpler search, 300 making most aluminum 4cyls viable or 500 making a v8 the obvious choice.

Just throwing this in here:

Suzuki H25A V6: "The dry weight of the engine with the conversion kit ready to install is 315 lbs. Our firewall installation, prop and everything is around 400 lbs. The barebones without the conversion kit is between 260 - 270 lbs."

Direct quote from an email I received from the folks at Titan Aircraft who install those engines into Mustang P-51 replicas.

The H27A should be close to the same. They are supposedly distantly related to the KL series from Mazda, but many, many differences. Closed deck, timing chains, etc.

I have seen one, unconfirmed claim that the bottom end is forged.

Even so, 300ish lbs for a V6? Slap some turbos on and find your power.

Totally unknown is the power handling ability of the suzuki 2wd trans.

Not light, but I think it would be pretty hard to beat a 1JZGTE plus r154 for a combination of cheap, tough and powerful.

DaewooOfDeath wrote: Not light, but I think it would be pretty hard to beat a 1JZGTE plus r154 for a combination of cheap, tough and powerful.

225 kg or 496 lbs

R154? 152 lbs

http://forums.celicasupra.com/archive/index.php/t-54868.html

To be bluntly honest, this is why I don't care about the 1JZ, 2JZ, or RB swaps. They weigh in pretty close to an SBC, and offer same, or less performance than an LS. While sticking out 2 cylinders longer.

Also, I think you can get some variant of an LS for roughly the same price as a 1JZGTE.

I didn't read all 8 pages, but has someone mentioned a turbine? Pretty light.

ScottRA21 wrote: Just throwing this in here: Suzuki H25A V6: "The dry weight of the engine with the conversion kit ready to install is 315 lbs. Our firewall installation, prop and everything is around 400 lbs. The barebones without the conversion kit is between 260 - 270 lbs." Direct quote from an email I received from the folks at Titan Aircraft who install those engines into Mustang P-51 replicas. The H27A should be close to the same. They are supposedly distantly related to the KL series from Mazda, but many, many differences. Closed deck, timing chains, etc. I have seen one, unconfirmed claim that the bottom end is forged. Even so, 300ish lbs for a V6? Slap some turbos on and find your power. Totally unknown is the power handling ability of the suzuki 2wd trans.

If the KL weighs about the same (and it should) that would be an easier route, since it actually has some aftermarket.

But... good on you for thinking of the H27... i always forget that thing.

B430 wrote: I dont think a turbine would make for a very drivable car, they aren't very responsive. Plus they are a bit pricey.... It would seem to me if you either went with 300 hp or 500 hp it would make this a simpler search, 300 making most aluminum 4cyls viable or 500 making a v8 the obvious choice.

You said LIGHTEST and at 127 lbs and 715 hp, I think I win. LOL

But I do agree with you on the responsiveness of a gas turbine in an automotive application.

Lightest way to go insanely fast. A-ha!

ScottRA21 wrote:

DaewooOfDeath wrote: Not light, but I think it would be pretty hard to beat a 1JZGTE plus r154 for a combination of cheap, tough and powerful.

225 kg or 496 lbs R154? 152 lbs http://forums.celicasupra.com/archive/index.php/t-54868.html To be bluntly honest, this is why I don't care about the 1JZ, 2JZ, or RB swaps. They weigh in pretty close to an SBC, and offer same, or less performance than an LS. While sticking out 2 cylinders longer. Also, I think you can get some variant of an LS for roughly the same price as a 1JZGTE.

It weighs what you'd expect for a SBC and is a mechanical boost controller away from 400 hp, an output where they are very unstressed. Seems like pretty good value considering how tough they are and how cheap they are to buy.

Any $1500 variant of LS won't bolt to a cheap manual like the r154 and will either be a screaming-unicorn level deal, beat to hell, and/or way beneath 400 hp stock. If you wanted to be cheap and close to 400 hp, you'd almost certainly be looking at an iron block 6.0, which kind of kills the LSX weight advantage.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

ScottRA21 wrote: Suzuki Stuff

If the KL weighs about the same (and it should) that would be an easier route, since it actually has some aftermarket. But... good on you for thinking of the H27... i always forget that thing.

Heh, when I have money and time, I will be swapping an H27 into something. Don't know what, but I will. Benefit is that it is already designed for rwd. Problems of course, are the absolute lack or aftermarket, the 4 or so computers that want to come with the damned thing (Engine, Body control, Dash control or something...I can't remember them all, but they all love to talk to each other). And the biggest pain: The H27 is almost always followed by an auto. The H25 is also frequently found with an auto...but can be found with a 5 speed manual. So it end up having to hunt down two cars just to get one engine and trans :/

Daewoo: Thanks for correcting me on the pricing, honestly wasn't positive, but remembered something about LS engines being cheap. Guess I keep getting it confused for the truck blocks.

Monster Tajima's "Grand Vitara" runs an H27, doesn't it?

@ Scott, I absolutely agree that the LS is a better engine. The 1jz is really only appealing because it's forgotten and thus cheap. From stock output up until the stock turbos get iffy (about 450 hp) they seem to me like a smashing value.

DaewooOfDeath wrote: Monster Tajima's "Grand Vitara" runs an H27, doesn't it? @ Scott, I absolutely agree that the LS is a better engine. The 1jz is really only appealing because it's forgotten and thus cheap. From stock output up until the stock turbos get iffy (about 450 hp) they seem to me like a smashing value.

I believe it did, but currently? No idea. I believe he's still running 2.7L of displacement, but I haven't seen, nor heard anything concrete about what the engine is based on.

But it looks like it could be:

vs:

DaewooOfDeath said:

Any $1500 variant of LS won't bolt to a cheap manual like the r154 and will either be a screaming-unicorn level deal, beat to hell, and/or way beneath 400 hp stock. If you wanted to be cheap and close to 400 hp, you'd almost certainly be looking at an iron block 6.0, which kind of kills the LSX weight advantage.

 i know several people who have gotten complete, intake to oil pan plus hanress and ecm, aluminum 5.3's for less the $1000 so its not that rare or a deal. pair that with an adapter kit ($600 from G-Force) and a fs5r30a (good for similar power to the r154) from a late z31, any z32, or any pathfinder/hardbody that had the v6 ($100-$200) and you are in the $1500 price range, give or take a few hundred bucks.

in comparison the cheapest 1jz i could find from a quick search was $1300 and that was without transmission.

In reply to stroker :great point !  what is the graph about weight versus power?  And to what standard?  1/4 mile 0-60? 

Factors such as traction and aerodynamics enter in to confuse  us but a working number should give us a starting point

edizzle89 said:

DaewooOfDeath said:

Any $1500 variant of LS won't bolt to a cheap manual like the r154 and will either be a screaming-unicorn level deal, beat to hell, and/or way beneath 400 hp stock. If you wanted to be cheap and close to 400 hp, you'd almost certainly be looking at an iron block 6.0, which kind of kills the LSX weight advantage.

 i know several people who have gotten complete, intake to oil pan plus hanress and ecm, aluminum 5.3's for less the $1000 so its not that rare or a deal.

You just have to get the engine from the '04ish Buick Ranier.  I forget the alphabet soup.  I can easily find them for $600-700 and harness/computer is cheap enough.

And for that, you get the "worst" cylinder heads, and an oil pan that is useless for any engine swap that isn't into a Trailblazer-based chassis.  LS oil pans are expensive!  I was shocked when I did some searching on oil pans....  The aluminum 5.3s that came in pickup trucks had better heads and swap-friendly oil pans and they are priced accordingly.

5 year old thread revival, I love it!

Rotary or some all aluminum 4 cylinder like a SR20DET

I wonder how much those tiny Mitsubishi and Mazda v6s weight? Like the one in the FTO and Galant VR4 in twin turbo form?

Skipping several pages, the OP asked for the *lightest* way to 400 hp. That would be a 2-liter 4-cylinder and NOS, or a turbo if he doesn't want that. Unless I missed it, expected engine life, how long it has to produce this 400 hp, and how much it costs weren't mentioned.

Oh, then there's the Hartley, two sets of Hayabusa engine parts installed into a 2.6 liter V8  for 400 hp and 10,000 rpm. Around 200 lbs. Again, price wasn't mentioned, which I think is about $45K (and another $15K for the sequential gearbox...)

In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac :

You can't get to 400 on a 2zz without bewst

In reply to tr8todd :if price has a premium over weight look at the Jaguar V 8  

all aluminum 4 valve per cylinder starts out with 375 hp stone stock goes up to 575 hp  available in Jaguars, Lincoln, Thunderbird, Land Rover, 

I've seen them under $400 to well over $4000

ha just realize that Suzuki engine is basically the Mazda engine I was tallking about. KL-ZE.

The Mitsubishi engine I mentioned is 6A12 or rather 6A12TT. When I was researching that generation of Galant, thinking of importing one, people were saying you would need an engine build to make much more than 350hp with it due to weak rods. The later FTO version of it could have VVL like 2-stage VTECH whatever Mitsubishi called it. A turbo build on that 2-stage VVL engine would probably be amazing and sound awesome.