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maj75
maj75 Reader
6/3/15 9:02 a.m.

Put the FE back in with a fuel injection set-up. Overdrive manual transmission will help.

This is one of those circle-jerk exercises in theoritical engineering. The money you spend on a swap and parts would buy a lot of gas. The $$$ difference even 5 mpg makes isn't that much unless you son is an over the road trucker. Unlikely he actually going to put enough miles on the truck to recoupe the costs. Get it running, get it safe, let him drive.

spitfirebill
spitfirebill PowerDork
6/3/15 9:33 a.m.

I've seen the 4BT's from breadvans. They cut the whole front end off the truck and sell it.

Nissan has diesels in their bigger trucks that may drop in.

bgkast
bgkast GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
6/3/15 11:41 a.m.

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/ford-crate-ecoboost/102348/page1/

bearmtnmartin
bearmtnmartin GRM+ Memberand Dork
6/3/15 11:47 a.m.

I would love to use a small diesel but they are HEAVY. There is a 1998 Hino TD for $1000.00 on my local craigslist and it would be an awesome motor. We are on our second Hino box van with the four cylinder TD and the first one was trouble free at 450,000 miles when it was written off. The one we replaced it with is at about 250,000 now with no issues. But it weighs almost 1200 pounds for the motor alone which is up there with a 5.9 Cummins. Way too much for an old half ton.

Regarding the FE that is in there, it is not going back in. There are so many better options than that dinosaur. And I recognize that the costs of the conversion will pay for a lot of fuel, but the capital costs are being shared or paid by the bank of dad, and the fuel down the road will be paid for by a kid with a part time job, so there is that.

I do appreciate all the suggestions.

bearmtnmartin
bearmtnmartin GRM+ Memberand Dork
6/3/15 11:48 a.m.

In reply to bgkast:

I saw that! I was going to look into that this morning.

Stealthtercel
Stealthtercel Dork
6/3/15 12:10 p.m.

I love the idea of that crate EcoBoost too, but for $6k I would think you could get a 5.0L configured any way you want, plus a five-speed, plus a carefully chosen rear-end ratio and hit your 20 mpg target, at least when cruising. You and your son might enjoy trying some of the home-built aero tricks too; after all, any gain is helpful on something the general shape of a Kleenex box.

bearmtnmartin
bearmtnmartin GRM+ Memberand Dork
6/3/15 12:54 p.m.

In reply to Stealthtercel:

A kleenex box with a lot of kleenex poking out the sides.

The ecoboost is nice but that is a $10,000 engine in Canada and that will be over 80 per cent of the build budget so it is out unfortunately.

alfadriver
alfadriver UltimaDork
6/3/15 1:13 p.m.

Because boredom... Just checked Copart for rangers- and there are quite a few that I bet will go for the bare min with the 2.3 and a manual trans.

I'm sure getting a very cheap 4.0 would be pretty easy, too.

volvoclearinghouse
volvoclearinghouse Dork
6/3/15 1:30 p.m.

Mercedes turbodiesel engine? OM617 or whatever the nomenclature is. Is the truck staying 4WD? There's adaptor kits out there to make them work in Jeeps, might not be a bad fit.

Otherwise, I'd go 302, fuel injected, with a 5 speed and OD. Just pull the whole running gear from some lightly-wrecked 90's truck, which you should be able to pick up (no pun intended) for under $1k.

Kendall_Jones
Kendall_Jones HalfDork
6/3/15 1:54 p.m.

My old E350 diesel van with the non turbo IHI 7.3L (and E4OD) damn near got 20 mpg loaded full of race crap. Probably too heavy for this application, but simple mechanical diesel injection.

bearmtnmartin
bearmtnmartin GRM+ Memberand Dork
6/3/15 2:42 p.m.

In reply to volvoclearinghouse:

I have been pissing the day away (joys of self employment) googling and the OM 617 is very interesting. you can pick them up in a free car for pocket change and they put out 200 hp with minor boost and fuel mods.

92dxman
92dxman Dork
6/3/15 2:53 p.m.

I'd say newer GM truck motor or 5.0/t-5..

alfadriver
alfadriver UltimaDork
6/4/15 11:56 a.m.

In reply to bearmtnmartin:

One note. Your thread title clearly says "stripper pics included" and all you have posted are pictures of trucks.

Just sayn.

bearmtnmartin
bearmtnmartin GRM+ Memberand Dork
6/4/15 6:00 p.m.

My bad. A stripped out Ferd doesn't really cut it but this might help....

mblommel
mblommel GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
6/4/15 6:57 p.m.

My local u-pull-it yard sells explorer "GT-40P" complete engines minus accessories for $310 with core charge included. Pair one of those with a T-5 or EAOD and you're rolling for cheap. Maybe drop in the 8.8 rear too. I'm sure those old trucks came with 302's so mounts for the engine are a bolt in.

alfadriver
alfadriver UltimaDork
6/4/15 7:35 p.m.

For 20mpg, you can try to replicate a Ranger, but seems like a good idea would be to try to copy a vette- or a very slow spinning v8. If you can find a 5 speed with a serious OD on it, that may be the way to get great fuel economy.

I'm not a huge fan of the 4.0l engine, but if you can find a iVCT 3.5l engine out of a Mustang- that may work. And possibly the reason why the Nissan could be a decent idea- you should be able to get an earlier one that's easier to control.

The other "problem" with the 4.0- they never came with a manual trans in a truck. Again, perhaps a decent source would be a Mustang.

I recall getting ~22 mpg with an unladed 4.0l ranger- early 2000's.

yupididit
yupididit GRM+ Memberand Reader
6/5/15 9:01 a.m.

It isn't the easiest to get 200hp out of an om617 from what I've seen. However, an om606 has a lot more power potential. It's a lot more refined and efficient. Couple it with a manual transmission and some mods then you'll be fine. The e300d weighed about 3800lbs at its lightest.

edwardh80
edwardh80 Reader
6/5/15 11:10 a.m.

I used to get a comfortable 20mpg with my Nissan TD42 in the truck in my avatar pic. Simple and super reliable mechanical injected diesel. They were fitted in the Nissan Cabstar/Atlas trucks (could also be the UD1400). It'd certainly be different, can be pretty easily turbo-charged for more motorvation (came in TD and N/A form). Anyway looks like they can be found in the US: TD42T and you should be able to get a suitable transmission too.

2002maniac
2002maniac Dork
6/5/15 3:16 p.m.

BMW M54 bolted to Rover trans and transfer case.

or

Jeep 4.0

Curmudgeon
Curmudgeon MegaDork
6/5/15 3:56 p.m.

How about the Isuzu NPR 4 banger diesel? 4BD1T or 4BD2T? In the box trucks they usually get 15 or so mpg, it would think 4k lbs wasn't even there, thus better mileage. Will run freakin' forever. Only drawback is I don't know if it came 4x4 in your neck of the woods (they did down in Central and South America), you'd maybe have to come up with a divorced transfer case.

http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/showthread.php?3635-STICKY-Isuzu-4BD1T-4BD2T-Reference

Looks like according to the int3rt00bzw3b the engines weigh around 700-750 pounds, the FE around 650 pounds.

On diesel swaps in general: due to the low RPM (3200 redline on the Isuzu) you'd be looking at probably either swapping axles or (and this would make him happy) really tall tires to change gearing so it wouldn't be limited on top end. Seems the consensus is 3:20-3:55 gears for the Isuzu.

bearmtnmartin
bearmtnmartin GRM+ Memberand Dork
6/5/15 8:10 p.m.

Well interestingly, I think I am leaning toward the 4BD1 at this point. It seems like the perfect combination of mileage and power. It has a big following and has been swapped into plenty of old bumps already and I should get mid twenties for mileage. As it turns out the truck has 3:50 gears so with an overdrive and 32's or 33's the revs will be in the high teens on the highway.

chiodos
chiodos Reader
6/5/15 8:22 p.m.

Yay! Rackety clackity diesel

bearmtnmartin
bearmtnmartin GRM+ Memberand Dork
6/6/15 12:48 a.m.
chiodos wrote: Yay! Rackety clackity diesel

One thing the isuzu has going for it is that it is quite a bit quieter than the Cummins. I crossed that one off because it is too heavy and too noisy.

Mr_Clutch42
Mr_Clutch42 Dork
6/6/15 9:47 a.m.

I'm surprised that some people suggested a VW 1.9 diesel, it doesn't seem like enough torque (or hp) for a full sized truck. I was going to suggest a straight 5 or straight 6 diesel from Mercedes Benz. According to Wikipedia, the OM617 is the old diesel engine design. The ones from the 80s and 90s are the OM602 and OM605 5 cylinder diesels. The OM603 and OM606 are the 6 cylinder diesels. You would want to get the ones with factory turbos.

bearmtnmartin
bearmtnmartin GRM+ Memberand Dork
6/9/15 5:50 p.m.

I have been doing a fair bit of thinking about this and I think I am going to go with the Mercedes OM617. That decision was helped by the fact that they are very common around here and I can pick up a nice running donor car for less than $1000.00. There is also a local guy who rebuilds the injection pumps with Cummins parts for fun which opens up some interesting performance potential. He has invited me over to see a couple of his creations on the weekend so that should be interesting. The Mercedes is not blessed with an abundance of torque and I think transmission selection will be important. Overdrive is pointless unless you are running massively low final gearing. Is there such a thing as a factory five speed with direct 1 to 1 in fifth? That would help to shorten up the gear spacing and keep it in the torque better. From my early googling, the people who complain about a lack of power are running way too tall of a tire, or final drive or both. The OM617 makes peak torque at around 2600 RPM which is very undiesel like and will really show when starting from a stop I would guess. Mercedes got around that with a high stall torque converter but I (my kid) wants a manual transmission.

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