Looking for help with Cheap miata turbo kit

My 1650lb autox miata needs some more motivation. The stock 1.6 works, but doesn't provide as much forward thrust as I would lke. It has decent suspensioin, tires, and enough traction, that many autox corners rarely require lifting. It also already has a torsen so I'm not worried about driveline failures.

I had plans to do some sort of v6 swap, but Time is running out. I am looking for no lag, and modest power levels (140-150whp would be great).

I am looking to do this on a limited budget. A manifold should not be an issue. I already have an exhaust flange and my dad makes custom headers for a living, so that would be virtually a freebie. I also have a number of intercoolers I've collected over the years, so that won't be an issue. What cheaply available turbo will work well for my goals? Is there some sort of way to easily and cheaply control fuel? I'm not an electronics guy. I frequently have trouble keeping working lights on my trailer.

I do have a megasquirt that was built for another car by a friend, that I could have, but have no idea how to hook it up.

Suggestons?

Also, This car never sees the street, so I don't really care if it's loud, polluting, and requires expensive gas since I drive it maybe 200km a year.

(flyin miata has a kit, steal their turbo sizing info, find similar turbo) -OR-

step 1) google: "how to read a turbo map"

step 2) read for several hours finding sites with lots of maps, calculators, etc

step 3) calculate your flow numbers and desired boost level (approximate your desired power level based on baseline numbers), match to turbo

step 4) scour CL, eBay, etc to find said turbo used or go JY'ing

step 5) google: "MegaSquirt Manual"

step 6) read for several hours

step 6) reread for several hours

step 6) read again for several hours

step 7) get on MSEFI.com

step 8) pretend the MS is a naked kit, begin assembly step by step ensuring everything is in it's propper place, if not, unsolder bits and redo as necessary

step 9) install MS

step 10) get your baseline maps set up

step 11) turn the key

step 12) tune

step 13) repeat 6-13 until it runs good

step 14) if money allows put it on a dyno and repeat step 12...

Goodluck my friend, turbo'ing is fun, MS is rewarding, but both take lots of effort...

Used DSM turbos are practically free from all the people upgrading, and would be plenty for a Miata.

We have a Miata-specific MegaSquirt guide on our website that should answer a lot of your questions in regards to the ECU:

http://www.diyautotune.com/tech_articles/how_to_megasquirt_your_mazda_miata.htm

MegaSquirt is very common on turbo Miatas, so there's a lot of people you can compare notes with.

I think Greddy made a very basic, inexpensive kit for the 1.6. There has got to be some info online about what they included in it.

GReddy used a couple of different turbos, Mitsu units I believe. The most common turbo found on Miatas is the GT2560R, but if you're not aiming for more than 200 hp at the wheels and good spool the GT2554R works well. I'm not sure what cheap options there are for the latter, but the former is the stock turbo for that Nissan motor that gets stuffed in every 240SX in existence - SR20DET or something like that. I'm pretty sure the Mazdaspeed Protege used a 2554, I don't know how many people swap them out. You could also get the stock turbo off a 323 GT, 323 GTX or Capri XR2, it's not a big power monster but it spools pretty well and they should be pretty cheap.

For 140-150 rwhp, you don't need to go as far as a Megasquirt or other ECU - although if you've got one, it will only cost you your time plus whatever extra sensors you need. A simple rising rate fuel pressure regulator will handle your power goals without trouble. We have a new one here that we're trying to get rid of for $125 if you want it, very quick and easy to set up. Nowhere near as sophisticated as a Megasquirt and you'll reach its limits at around 180-190 rwhp, but it'll be the fastest and cheapest way to boost. You may have to install a fuel pump as well depending on how much boost you run.

A better option for "faster to implement but costs more money than an MS you already own" would be a Voodoo Box. They're around $400 and extend the fuel injector pulse width under boost. No mechanical parts to wear and more consistent than an FPR, it's what I run on Janel's turbo 1.6 Miata.

I just found out we have a 1.6 FM II coming off a car that's getting a V8 transplant. I'll talk to the boss, give me a call and we can probably sidestep all of your engineering for a pretty good price. Bolt on, plug in the ECU and smile. Although it's going to make more than 140 rwhp, expect closer to 220

Jeez Keith, only 220hp for a 1650lb car?

I would skip the Greddy kit. Most people end up only using the manifold and turbo. Since you don't need a manifold and the turbo is very big for what you are looking for, it really wouldn't save you any time.

I use a T25 from a FWD SR20DET. Lots of those guys sell them cheap as they are upgrading to bigger stuff. It's a great quick spooling turbo on a Miata. I got mine for $40 on CL. It's journal bearing and I didn't rebuild it, just looked it over and cleaned it up. Works great at 12psi.

I would definitely suggest the MS. You will have to mod it for the Miata. Good info on the mods required as well as the wiring to install it here: http://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t13676/ If you don't feel comfortable doing the mods to the MS, contact Braineack who wrote the article. He builds MS's for a good price and would likely mod it for you. He can also build you a harness so it is pretty much PNP. More info on his builds here: http://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t14598/

PS. if you haven't been on that site, don't post ANYTHING unless you have done your research. They can be very hostile to newbs.

....must resist.....calling Keith for that kit...... the horsepower sirens call.......

From what I've heard, this is the best cheap kit out there:

http://www.bellengineering.net/product_info.php?cPath=5_11_63&products_id=396

If you can afford a FM kit however, their quality seems pretty well unimpeachable.

He can match the open market kits power wise for a fraction of the cost. Especially as he has the source for manifold making... downpipe... intake piping and such.

www.miataturbo.net and just read. First timers posting about "what do I need" get beaten up. TONS of information for doing a DIY and Miata specific setup over there though. Good thread to start reading: http://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t4288/

I've got a Greddy kit I'll let go for very little. It's not in the best shape but I could use the dosh for other projects. When removed it worked great. I have the Fuel Pressure Unit and a BIPES controller for it as well.

There are cheaper ways to get into a turbo Miata, but I really like having a well-engineered system with great customer service and a broad knowledge base. For my money, I'd honestly save for an FMII kit. At the very least, I'd use their manifold/outlet/downpipe combo.

I'm a total fanboi for the Flyin Miata stuff, because it uses a REALLY nice turbo for the Miata and includes everything you will need to complete the job. Plus, they host an awesome party at their headquarters in the summer.

You can create a less expensive turbo setup for a Miata, but I think if you honestly count all the hardware, electronics, wiring, sensors, and TIME from trial-and-error development you're further ahead with one kit from one manufacturer. Some people like the total DIY engineering, but I like tire smoke and dead solid reliability (almost 2 years on my FMII at 238 whp later, nothing but oil changes and a blown heater hose from EGR tube contact) of the FMII kit.

Cooling is an often-overlooked part of the equation, though. Be prepared to take steps to fight heat; I've struggled with some heat issues during track testing. (Of course, it's really freaking hot here in the summer.) Autocrossing doesn't seem to be a problem at all, and I've been able to make some easy and cheap cooling upgrades over time.

These cheap 5-6 psi systems always concern me wrt engine management. Sure a little ignition retard and fuel enrichment will give you more gittyup on the onramp safely, but over a 20 minute track session or canyon flog, I'd be seriously concerned with heat soak and engine damage. I'd be interested in hearing from guys who've used the low-end units as to how hard they've actually pushed them.

I too am a big fan of FM and I use several of their products in my setup, but for the numbers he's wanting (150whp), his access to a free manifold, intercooler, and MS, and his use of the word "Cheap" in the title, it seems the DIY route is a better option. The FMII at $5300 (not including clutch, exhaust, etc) is an awesome kit though and if you have the means, I highly recomment picking one up!

I appreciate all the suggestions so far. I had already been warned about not to post questions like this on mt.net. From what I're read, the greddy kit is not what I'm looking for since it seems to suffer a fair bit of turbo lag. For a car that see's 90% autox use, it just won't work.

Are there any stock small turbos that use ballbearings? I would assume a bb turbo would spool up quicker than a similar sized journal bearing one.

mw wrote: I appreciate all the suggestions so far. I had already been warned about not to post questions like this on mt.net. From what I're read, the greddy kit is not what I'm looking for since it seems to suffer a fair bit of turbo lag. For a car that see's 90% autox use, it just won't work. Are there any stock small turbos that use ballbearings? I would assume a bb turbo would spool up quicker than a similar sized journal bearing one.

Honestly, for the power levels you're looking for.... snag a T25, a used or free custom manifold for cheap or free, an FMU, get an intercooler setup going, and run 4-5psi and call it a day. For autocross work, it'll be just fine.

However, if you feel like 220hp would be better (it goes to 11!!), then i'd start working with Keith.

On the flip side, have you thought about just dumping in a BP with bolt ons? Seems like the right answer from a projected reliability standpoint for the power levels you're looking for.

Thanks for the kind words about FM, guys. We try.

kreb wrote: These cheap 5-6 psi systems always concern me wrt engine management. Sure a little ignition retard and fuel enrichment will give you more gittyup on the onramp safely, but over a 20 minute track session or canyon flog, I'd be seriously concerned with heat soak and engine damage. I'd be interested in hearing from guys who've used the low-end units as to how hard they've actually pushed them.

I'm sure this will be taken with a grain of salt because of what I do for a living...but I have! Janel's Miata is a 1.6 with an intercooled Voodoo II using the small 2554 turbo and an MSD box for timing. Nothing exotic, just off-the-shelf FM parts.

It's seen long trips (including some mountain passes that involve uninterrupted climbing for a while) and track days on both short and long tracks. The biggest problem is with cooling - we have thin, high-altitude air, low humidity (bad for cooling cars) and our short track is really really hard on cooling due to low air speeds. This particular car runs hotter than most as well for some reason, I think it has a weak water pump. So we use it for testing cooling parts If we didn't have another car to bring, I wouldn't hesitate to take it to Laguna Seca for the big two-day Miata event there.

Engine damage, not a problem. But then again, it doesn't knock. So that's not surprising.

Some of the cheap kits on the market are decontented pretty far, even those that are well respected. But if you view them as a starting point and you have some fabrication skills to both make them fit and to deal with the missing parts, they're worth looking into. As with so much else (see: GRM Challenge), hard work and skill can be substituted for money and vice versa.

220 hp in 1650 lbs? Ahh, that's just getting started

I used to have a Miata with a Greddy kit. The turbo in that kit was an oil cooled journal bearing. I now have a Begi-SSM kit installed in my current Miata with a GT2554. This turbo has ball bearings. I didn't notice any difference in spool speed between the two. That was on the track or on the street. I tracked both kits so I can speak from experience on that point.

I'd try Flyin' Miata's kit if I had it to do over again. Corky's crew is pretty good but my kit required 3 shipments to get all the parts to me. The kit I bought is well made but Flyin' Miata has some incredible customer service. I've purchased all my other parts on this car from FM. No complaints. They even called to check on me after the parts arrived.

Make sure you avoid the stainless steel eBay manifold and downpipe kit. Yeah you can pick them up for $100-150 shipped but you will need to weld the manifold back together every 5,000 miles. I’ve had to fix mine 3 times since I’ve owned it. Almost ripped the turbo flange off after the last challenge.

Here what I have into my kit just to give you a rough idea.

$35 DSM 14b turbo $125 ebay manifold and downpipe kit. $200 megasquirt $40 RX-7 injectors $135 ebay intercooler kit (used only ½ the parts) $5 BOV

I was searching in my basement and came across a turbo. It's a mitsu TEO4H and has the numbers 449882 cast into it. Does anyone know if this would be decently sized for a 1.6?

Could be a Chrysler K-car turbo. They'd probably be about the right size for your power goal, but beware of the weird flange.

Pseudosport wrote: Make sure you avoid the stainless steel eBay manifold and downpipe kit. Yeah you can pick them up for $100-150 shipped but you will need to weld the manifold back together every 5,000 miles. I’ve had to fix mine 3 times since I’ve owned it. Almost ripped the turbo flange off after the last challenge. Here what I have into my kit just to give you a rough idea. $35 DSM 14b turbo $125 ebay manifold and downpipe kit. $200 megasquirt $40 RX-7 injectors $135 ebay intercooler kit (used only ½ the parts) $5 BOV

How's that working out for you - besides the manifold issues?

mw wrote: I was searching in my basement and came across a turbo. It's a mitsu TEO4H and has the numbers 449882 cast into it. Does anyone know if this would be decently sized for a 1.6?

No, the TE04H would NOT be a good pic for a 1.6 motor, considering it came off a 3.0 chrysler block.

Like stated above, a T25 would work excellent, a T28 would work as well, but will have more lag then the T25.

You could also use a T3/4 but that would be even more lag then you want, but will be an even higher power output, depending on where you want to end up AFTER you boost it for the first time.

Andrew

Another good donor is a T-22 from Nissan 300ZX TT (if you can find one). The Nissan is 3.0 L, so each turbo is sized for 1.5 L. It will spool nicely, but the size does limit the ultimate power, should you decide to upgrade later on.

kreb wrote: How's that working out for you - besides the manifold issues?

I think the 14b turbo is a good fit for the motor. I get 15 psi by 3600 RPMs with a 2.5" downpipe and full exhaust. Megasquirt is a lot of fun to mess with and its nice to have control over everything. Car is a lot of fun to drive daily and placed 4th in last years challenge. My only complaint is that the car does not like to start below 30 degrees but that's a combo of the lawn mower battery I'm using and my tuning.

mw wrote: I was searching in my basement and came across a turbo. It's a mitsu TEO4H and has the numbers 449882 cast into it. Does anyone know if this would be decently sized for a 1.6?

I've got nothing to contribute except to say that I'm happy to read about someone else finding things like a forgotten turbo in their basement. I was going through a box of stuff, in my garage , and found a brand new Wilwood master cylinder and two new rear wheel cylinders for my Spitfire.