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AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UberDork
11/28/22 12:38 p.m.

Okay this forum inspired me to build a rally replica.  This forum and a friend of mine also got me into rallycross.  I did pretty good in my first two seasons.  Then this forum inspired me to want to build a full rally replica (looking at your Porsche 911 rallycross guys).  So I did it.  I went full crazy and bought a real Subaru rally car.  I have lots of parts to make it look the part and the vinyl too.  I will post updates in my build thread over the winter.  I got more wheels and tires than you can imagine with this car.  I got mostly rally tires and snows, but I did get a set of JDM 17" forged Enkeis (maybe flow formed) too.  I want to put to put 225/45/17 200 TW tires on them so I can get a plate on the car and drive it to car shows some, sometimes drive it on short drives, sometimes autocross it if the mood strikes, do a hillclimb every year or so, and rallycross it on the hardpacked clay in OK (yes 200 TW tires rule on that surface).  So what 200 TW tire in 225/45/17 will do all these crazy things and not die doing one or the other?  Yes I am asking for a do it all tire.  Heck I could see me pulling this thing to FL and running it in the challege as a way over budget entry just for fun too.  So yes, even drag racing isn't out of the question. 

I think the rallycross site at Hollytree offroad in AL is going to require the rally tires I already have on two sets of wheels.  I also have 6 rally wheels for sale with Sumitomo snows.....  too many wheels. 

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/28/22 1:09 p.m.

You'd want a long-wearing 200TW like the Hankook RS3/RS4 or Continental ECF. Not sure how those will do in rallycross with pavement-oriented tread patterns, but they will do well in everything else. You could also look at the Michelin PS4S which isn't as grippy but may do better in the dirt with a more aggressive tread pattern and will probably last even longer.

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UberDork
11/28/22 1:51 p.m.

In reply to GameboyRMH :

I know the RE71 does great on this dirt.  It might as well be asphalt if  you stay in the right line.  If you get off the line it gets fluffy.  I was thinking the RS4 might be the tire based on their endurance reputation.  The new Conti 200 TW tire interests me too.  I really like the ECS and keep buying them. 

ojannen
ojannen Reader
11/28/22 1:56 p.m.

I would worry about damaging your nice wheels in a rallycross before I worried about tire choice.  Whatever you choose, make sure you have full sized spares for a debead or a rock to the sidewall.

You will be fine on 200TW tires at The FIRM or at Holytree for rallycross.  I would give different answers for other venues in the southeast.  How much do you want to spend on tires per year?  I would start with the Yokohama AO52, Falken 550, and Bridgestone RE71S if I had $1200-1500 per year in tire budget assuming 15ish events per year.  The Falken 615 is cheap, roughly the same speed on dirt, and a little slower on tarmac.

mr2s2000elise
mr2s2000elise UberDork
11/28/22 2:19 p.m.

I am with Ojannen. 

 

I used the Yoko AD07/AD08 for a while. 

Switched to yoko a048 which I love for my DD, and now run the A052 on 4 of the DD - also track and lots of weekend mountain runs. 

I did a few pair of R888 and came back to the yokos again. 

 

I used to run azenis what feel a lifetime ago on my then new MSM, but they get soo unbearably loud after a while - not my cup of tea

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UberDork
11/28/22 2:31 p.m.

In reply to ojannen :

Hollytree and the FIRM are both hardpack like OK? I never had issues on the hardpack clay in OK.  That is very useful information to have before I drive to either next season. 

QuasiMofo (John Brown)
QuasiMofo (John Brown) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/28/22 2:35 p.m.

Tire streets

https://tirestreets.com/products/accelera-651-sport?variant=23321110642746

Hear me out. 

Sign up and be a "member" today. Get 50% off your tire order. 

Like your $150 tire for $75. 

Not affiliated. I am not a paid spokesperson. I have bought tires for 50% off though.

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UberDork
11/28/22 3:14 p.m.

In reply to QuasiMofo (John Brown) :

Dang $300 for tires to destroy on various surfaces.  That's crazy.  Are they any good?  I was about to pull the trigger on RS-4s.  I'm going to send the wheels off to be painted rally gold soon too (rally replica color). 

 

Colin Wood
Colin Wood Associate Editor
11/28/22 3:14 p.m.

If you haven't checked out our ultimate tire guide yet, it offers our results for a whole bunch of different tires on the market right now:

[Ultimate track tire guide | 200tw, 100tw, street-legal track and R-comps]

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UberDork
11/28/22 3:27 p.m.

In reply to Colin Wood :

I do read all the tire tests, but reviewed the charts again now.  Really it sounds like I should probably just get another set of the new ECS for the Subaru too.  I just put a set on the Friday fun car.  It's the only thing that is going to kind of do it all and then keep me from being butt puckered if I'm caught out in the wet. 

QuasiMofo (John Brown)
QuasiMofo (John Brown) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/28/22 3:57 p.m.

In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :

I've only just bolted them on the fronts and ran them around the block at speed. I need to redrill the rear hubs before a real test drive.

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UberDork
11/28/22 4:08 p.m.

In reply to QuasiMofo (John Brown) :

F body? 

ojannen
ojannen Reader
11/28/22 4:33 p.m.

In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :

Holytree is hard clay with a layer of soft stuff on top.  Snow tires are faster in the morning but 200TWs might be faster in the afternoon if the course doesn't change much.  You can hear my tires squealing on some of the hard stuff.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIoAQwJ_--E

SCCA rallycross at the firm is on their limestone/gravel skidpad.  I have had more success there on fresh 200TW tires than rally tires, gravel retreads, or snow tires.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdRpgCirJNA

Rallycross put on by the firm is a mixed surface event with about 50% tarmac, 30% clay/limestone, 20% sand.  Everyone is slow in the sand.  You need to decide if you want to have fun on the tarmac corners or the dirt corners with your tire choice.  It rained the night before this event and the clay was pretty much undriveable on street tires.  Usually, it is pretty grippy.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-q5QWGOz_y4

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UberDork
11/28/22 4:44 p.m.
ojannen said:

In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :

Holytree is hard clay with a layer of soft stuff on top.  Snow tires are faster in the morning but 200TWs might be faster in the afternoon if the course doesn't change much.  You can hear my tires squealing on some of the hard stuff.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIoAQwJ_--E

SCCA rallycross at the firm is on their limestone/gravel skidpad.  I have had more success there on fresh 200TW tires than rally tires, gravel retreads, or snow tires.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdRpgCirJNA

Rallycross put on by the firm is a mixed surface event with about 50% tarmac, 30% clay/limestone, 20% sand.  Everyone is slow in the sand.  You need to decide if you want to have fun on the tarmac corners or the dirt corners with your tire choice.  It rained the night before this event and the clay was pretty much undriveable on street tires.  Usually, it is pretty grippy.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-q5QWGOz_y4

Awesome info!  Thank you.  I've moved some I'm almost halfway between all 3 of these venues.  Hollytree is closest, OK (North TX) is next, and the FIRM would be 3rd closest.  I've done well at North TX on higher performance tires.  I saw the same thing as Hollytree.  Later in the day the higher performance tires get the best times. 

Okay now do I spend money making my 17s look right and run 225/45/17s (stock '04 STi size) or do I get some 16s and run 225/50/16s.  I'm thinking the 16s will be better on the clay.  I ran 205/55/16s which are the stock 16" size for the '02 and '03 Subaru WRXs and RSs. 

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UberDork
11/28/22 5:08 p.m.

In reply to ojannen :

Watched your vids.  The rallycross put on by the FIRM looks like a blast!  I really like how you cleaned up some of the slow stuff on the 2nd lap.  I laughed at myself and you on the first lap when you hit the last really slow off pavement section and hit the brakes to bleed speed with the front wheels turned and the car not pointed straight!  Doing that in a Subaru at anything over 40 on dirt is a butt clenching experience!  They get so tail happy in that state.  I have to tell myself to get straightened out and then ease into the brakes or I can get way sideways.  A few members here have seen me do it lol, some from the passenger seat. 

QuasiMofo (John Brown)
QuasiMofo (John Brown) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/28/22 5:36 p.m.
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to QuasiMofo (John Brown) :

F body? 

Smaller, lighter, LS powered

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UberDork
11/28/22 6:16 p.m.

In reply to QuasiMofo (John Brown) :

That looks like lots of fun!  

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UberDork
11/29/22 4:47 p.m.

No one has any input on 16" vs 17" tires for this use?  I'm still undecided.  I'm also undecided if I should buy some JDM forged wheels or refurbish and get the ones I have refinished.  Or should I just spray paint them gold and send it.  I won't cry if they get hurt doing the later. 

adam525i
adam525i GRM+ Memberand Dork
11/29/22 10:09 p.m.
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:

No one has any input on 16" vs 17" tires for this use?  I'm still undecided.  I'm also undecided if I should buy some JDM forged wheels or refurbish and get the ones I have refinished.  Or should I just spray paint them gold and send it.  I won't cry if they get hurt doing the later. 

As someone running these sizes in 16" I like that the tires (and likely wheels) are more affordable. I don't like that the taller sidewall doesn't support the tread as well during hard cornering on track and flexes more, that is likely a plus in your usage case. 

kevinatfms
kevinatfms GRM+ Memberand HalfDork
11/30/22 10:42 a.m.

We ran the Sport 651 in Champ Car in the 12 Hours at VIR South. They performed great and wore as expected. Rears experienced zero wear over 12 hours. Fronts wore down to the bars but its a terribly setup FWD econobox with so much push that they were sandpapered to death versus not performing. 

I think if the car is a RWD, AWD or properly setup FWD car, the tires would last significantly longer than they did. 

I can provide pictures or if you check out the Elantra build thread there should be pictures in that thread of how they looked after the 12 hour race.
 

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/30/22 11:39 a.m.

Experience says loose stuff over hardpack sucks no matter what tires you have.

You probably will not debead, but if you do that is what air tanks are for not spare wheels.  Pop the tire on in less time.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/30/22 12:46 p.m.
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:

No one has any input on 16" vs 17" tires for this use?

The 16s will be better for rallycross, the 17s will be better for everything else. Also there's a much better selection of tires in 17"

ojannen
ojannen Reader
11/30/22 4:08 p.m.

15" is the right size for rallycross.  In your first post, you mentioned having snow tires and rally tires on what I assume are 15" wheels.  Why not use those?

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
11/30/22 6:24 p.m.

In reply to ojannen :

The only thing that sucks about 15" in this case is that generally the only size offered in Good tires is a 195/50, which is great for some cars but a mite small for others.

I loved the heck out of 195/55s on a 2800lb car, and won a RX challenge event with them in PF.  Wider might not have been so good with respect to dirt grip, obviously good for other surfaces.  May need to go to 16s if only to increase the tire options available, as well as outside diameter for most chassis.

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UberDork
11/30/22 6:27 p.m.

In reply to ojannen :

I could but I ran a Subaru in rallycross on 16s for two years.  I'd love to have those wheels and tires back.  I'd still have them if the new owner didn't fly and drive and Amazon and the lock tire store didn't suck.  

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