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kevlarcorolla
kevlarcorolla Dork
8/2/18 4:27 p.m.

In reply to codrus :

While I still have much to learn the last 20 yrs of trying to make cars faster has taught me a fair bit.

 My cars run at the front,many of them swaybar free at one end or both.wink

 Some cars can't of course but my rule of thumb is to work a setup around no bar on the drive wheel end.

 I use logic and testing to acheive my results,I also share them freely.

thatsnowinnebago
thatsnowinnebago GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
8/2/18 4:42 p.m.

I remember reading an article here about sway bars on FWD cars that concluded a bigger front bar can actually increase front grip. The test vehicle had a McPherson front suspension (I think) so body roll reduced the contact patch. Reducing that body roll with a big front bar kept the tires flatter, which kept more rubber on the ground. Is the Fit a strut front or double wishbone?

Yelo
Yelo GRM+ Memberand New Reader
8/2/18 5:55 p.m.
red_stapler said:
Yelo said:

10k front 12k rear

How did you decide on those spring rates?  It seems like they're way too high, especially in the rear.

Other people racing Fit are using these, was great while in STF and full interior but now in EP and stripped interior is way different....

Yelo
Yelo GRM+ Memberand New Reader
8/2/18 5:58 p.m.
Tom1200 said:

Let's back up; 

Why was the front bar disconnected? I repeated why was the front bar disconnected? 

Was it to get rid of understeer? 

If it was install a softer front bar. A coupe of us mentioned fix the end that has the problem. If the bar was disconnected to fix the front and you now have big oversteer, then the end that needs fixing is the front.

Again if the front bar was removed to fix the understeer and now your playing with the rear to fix the first fix (front bar) your pissing up a rope.

As state before, front bar was remove as a copy of other racer setup, Fit have massive understeer from factory, so add a rear bar and remove front rear s the way to go.... plus removing the front bar help getting all those 116 whp to the ground....

kevlarcorolla
kevlarcorolla Dork
8/2/18 5:58 p.m.

In reply to thatsnowinnebago :

Stock class with stock springs for sure a bigger front bar will do as you say.

 Moving to a lightened car lowered with stiff springs is a different deal.

I'm not saying in all cases throw the sways away,in this case the car seems to be making more front grip then before the minor change of lightening and not so minor change to 245 sized rubber.

 If you want the car faster in this case explore improving rear grip 1st and then if you can't get the balance sorted install the STOCK front bar and retest 

 I would be trying a bunch of things way before reinstalling the front bar however.

I've done back to back testing many times over the yrs on many different cars and drivetrain configurations.

 Its very rare that a sway bar finds its way back on both ends of my cars when I'm done.

iceracer
iceracer UltimaDork
8/2/18 7:04 p.m.

Bars are to limit body roll.

removing one exacerbates the roll.   Stiffening the other end to limit roll screws up the handling.

Limiting roll on a strut suspension reduces camber change.

Negative camber an more caster limit under steer.

Tom1200
Tom1200 HalfDork
8/2/18 7:48 p.m.

Yelo this makes sense as the sway bar will limit droop and forward bite can be affected because of it. Knowing that I would say the choices are pretty straight forward, either softer springs or softer bar. My preference is for softer springs because that adds to suspension compliance.

You mentioned the set up being standard for a Fit. What is the driving style for people who have cars set up this way? Is it very different from yours? Basically do they get back on the power as soon they finish turning the wheel whereas you trial brake deep into corners? I bring this up because a friend uses a set up where the car rotates anytime you are off the throttle versus my set up that works with trial braking. Anytime I drive a car he's set up I have to change my driving style. If the car was mine I'd change it to fit my style.

I do have one other question on set up. What were the corner weights before you gutted the car. The set up seems nose heavy to me but as previously mentioned I'm not a FWD guy.

Kevalcorolla your approach has merit; our D-Sports Racer had no sway bars , the car was 72" wide with a narrow single seat chassis with long control arms. This is a philosophy that Carroll Smith talks about in Prepare To Win. Formula 500s are not equipped with sway bars and they manage the same corner speed as Formula Fords.

It all comes down to whatever set up works best for the car/driver combo doesn't it. There is no magic bullet and to get the last little bit of performance you have to test things.

 

rslifkin
rslifkin UltraDork
8/2/18 8:15 p.m.

Generally too much bar on the drive end is bad.  The exception being a FWD with a bad camber curve up front.  If the camber curve is bad, you're going to want a lot of spring or bar at that end to limit roll.  There's a point where that will gain you more grip than the stiffness will cost you. 

kevlarcorolla
kevlarcorolla Dork
8/3/18 6:37 a.m.

In reply to Tom1200 :

I only had my F500 for 2 events before my fall damaged neck said stop it.

 Those things need to step into the modern age and run proper damperswink

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