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docwyte
docwyte UberDork
12/13/19 12:02 p.m.

In reply to sleepyhead the buffalo :

Well, what really kills is rapid deceleration...

iceracer
iceracer UltimaDork
12/13/19 1:43 p.m.

Just like it is not the fall that kills you, it is the sudden stop.

So they got their 15 hrs of fame.

Now lets move on.

ebonyandivory
ebonyandivory PowerDork
12/13/19 4:13 p.m.

In reply to iceracer :

I almost posted that same "sudden stop" quote.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
12/14/19 11:40 a.m.
ebonyandivory said:

Red herring? The only red herring here is members assuming these Cannonball participants are anything but EXTREMELY rare. Lightning can also kill you but I'm pretty sure you're not ranting about lightning even though it kills ~50 people per year while as far as I know zero deaths can be attributed to the Cannonball run.

You can search it out if you want, but the son of a rally competitor I know was driving a 911 in a cannonball-type event (I think it was Gumball) in Europe, around the mid-2000s IIRC, and killed a whole family in a car that pulled out too close in front of him. If he wasn't doing Gumball speeds they might've had a better chance of seeing his car and surviving the impact, and the driver might've had more time to brake.

ebonyandivory
ebonyandivory PowerDork
12/14/19 12:20 p.m.

I totally understand your point. I also am NOT saying this is a "safe sport" and that I actually condone it. I also have no issue with the participants paying their proper serious restitution if they get caught.

I will say pointing out a single fatal crash on another continent over a decade ago doesn't directly reflect the relative safety or danger of the American Cannonball Run. 

Of course the anger I'd feel toward the driver if any of my family members were killed in such a way wouldn't be alleviated knowing the driver was using spotters and navigators so I really do understand your and many others' opinions.

I guess my point could be summed up by saying I'm in several orders of magnitude more at risk of a serious crash by a "normal" car piloted by a "normal" driver than I am in ever even sharing the road with one of these participants. The odds of them killing me driving to work has never even crossed my mind.

I hate to think I caused any anger to other GRM members in posting my opinions. They're just my opinions and I absolutely love the debate.

 

LanEvo
LanEvo Dork
12/14/19 8:02 p.m.

^^^ Most of us don't approve of street racing because all the "normal" people driving their kids to school etc. haven't agreed to be rolling chicanes in someone else's race. Seems unfair to ask them to risk their safety so that a couple of brats can treat public roads like their personal playground.

 

You could argue that the very early days of the Cannonball were an exception because there was a process to vet the drivers. Besides that, there was at least the pretense of some sort of social responsibility behind it:

If you read Brock Yates's book, the early races were a challenge to US automakers to up their game and improve handling/braking/aero. They weren't really protesting the 55 MPH speed limit (that came later). Rather, they were criticizing US automakers for building cars like the Pontiac GTO: huge power, but numb steering, crappy brakes, sloppy handling, and zero aerodynamics. In contrast, the Europeans were engineering and building cars like the Mercedes 450 SEL 6.9 that could safely cruise at autobahn speeds all day long.

Modern Cannonballers strike me as much closer to street racers than Dan Gurney, who won the '71 event in a Ferrari 365GTB/4. Guys like Alex Roy seem like self-entitled douchebags who are doing it for their own glory.

ebonyandivory
ebonyandivory PowerDork
12/14/19 8:19 p.m.
LanEvo said:

^^^ Most of us don't approve of street racing because all the "normal" people driving their kids to school etc. haven't agreed to be rolling chicanes in someone else's race.
 

Guys like Alex Roy seem like self-entitled douchebags who are doing it for their own glory.

I can't even pretend to disagree with this

RX8driver
RX8driver Reader
12/15/19 9:23 a.m.

Comparing the relative danger of this to anything else is a total fallacy. It's not a choice you get to make and they're not mutually exclusive. Just because I'd rather live with a drunk driver nearby than having a nuclear bomb dropped on me doesn't make either ok and doesn't make it my choice. Both are bad, just different levels of bad. Also saying that they only endangered a small portion of the public is a lot like saying that it's ok because someone only attempted to murder 1 person, rather than trying to commit a mass shooting.

They seriously endangered the public and I'd throw the book at everyone involved if I could. Going 193 mph on public roads is moronic. Doing it for internet glory doesn't make it ok, if anything it's worse.

I know as a community we probably like to drive faster than "normal", but there's a time and a place for that and open public roads are not that place and this sort of behaviour threatens the whole community and our access to venues where we can go play in relative safety.

ebonyandivory
ebonyandivory PowerDork
12/15/19 9:56 a.m.

Obviously endangering innocent people is an awful thing to do and deserves appropriate punishment.

I'm not trying to argue with anyone's about that but, and maybe this should be the final time, I want to clarify. My thoughts are since the chances of a loved one getting killed by a drunk driver or someone driving on drugs or texting while driving are incalculably higher, I have zero concern of getting that dreaded late night call that one of my family members was injured or killed in a horrific Cannonball Run accident vs the former.

 

 

 

frenchyd
frenchyd PowerDork
12/15/19 10:09 a.m.

In reply to ebonyandivory :

Road racing started in Europe where cars raced from town to town. Yes spectators were killed but I might remind everyone that the 1955 LeMans race was a circuit race and it managed to kill 80 people.  
No one goes to a modern race expecting to be killed or injured but it still happens. 
 

I won't  try to justify the Cannonball run because it's very risky to innocent people.  But innocent people are regularly killed by speeders or drunk drivers.  Or  lousy drivers, suicidal people, Weather, poor roads, police officers chasing speeders,  etc etc etc. 

Face it the world is not safe.  Picking out one event and making them the focus of your rath seems just a little too disingenuous.  

RX8driver
RX8driver Reader
12/16/19 7:49 a.m.

And celebrating this one event is counter productive. If the media all collectively agreed to atop publicizing this stuff then that would remove a huge incentive to do it. Why not start publishing the local street race results too?

RacingComputers
RacingComputers Reader
5/29/22 4:54 p.m.

Gurney and Yates drove the only BLUE Ferrari Anerica in the USA at that time,

 

FWIW

tremm
tremm Reader
5/29/22 7:11 p.m.

I think, for me, it depends how they were driving around traffic.

I don't know if I'd be happy or disappointed to see them prosecuted. I remember hearing about some youtuber getting busted after-the-fact; they had the speedo covered, but public servants calculated their speed based on the video iirc. I assume these are US citizens. Seems pretty clear.

I think within the last few months, on the drive, there was someone caught >160 in a hellcat that got a silly <$500 fine, or warning or something. I dunno; seems like everyone should be treated the same, one way or the other. Probably should go towards punishment, since everyone driving 150mph doesn't sound like a recipe for success.

I don't mind driving 70 in the #2 lane and having someone blow past me at 90, on an interstate between cities (heck, even if traffic is clear).

I don't mind if someone's doing 193 in the middle of nowhere, slows to 90 to pass traffic, and accelerates again.

If you're passing on the right, things start getting scary. Coming up on someone doing 80 in the #1, passing at 90-110 in the #2... that should probably be ended if you're doing it for 27 hours.

And then there's semis, which probably don't deserve to have someone doing >100 pass by them, though I'm sure it wouldn't be the first time.

What I'm saying is, I'd watch the documentary, but wouldn't pay to support it. 

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