TrackNeon
TrackNeon New Reader
5/1/23 11:40 a.m.

My 2014 cts V-sport came from the factory with 220tw Pirelli runflats.   

The Michelin 4s always seems to be at the top of the comparisons..  but.. is that the case when going to a 200tw tire?    

Kumho ps91s have my interest.. 

Not daily driven.   

 

Olemiss540
Olemiss540 HalfDork
5/1/23 11:45 a.m.

Who cares what the TW rating was from the factory IMO. Buy the tire that best suits your intended purpose (HPDE, autocross, street, commute, rain, snow, etc).

TW ratings between different manufacturers are not possible to cross reference. The MPS4S is going to be mountains better than that old crappy Perelli run flat IMO in every way imaginable.

DocRob
DocRob Reader
5/1/23 12:12 p.m.

The biggest difference between 200TW (Kumho P91s) and 300TW (Michelin PS 4S) will be wet traction. The Michelin will likely be off the pace in the dry (~2-3 seconds of lap time), but in the wet you're going to have a much surer footing. 

If you're mainly canyon carving/road driving/HDPE, the Michelins will be better (and last longer).

If you're running autocross/Time trials a 200tw tire is where you want to look. I personally don't like 200tw on the street, because there is water on the street regularly. 

At the local level I've won my classes in Auto-X on 300TW tires in the past. But I'm always off pace for Regional and National level competition. That's fine, for a daily driven car that I drove to the event and drove home without changing tires, I'm good with it. 

calteg
calteg SuperDork
5/1/23 1:22 p.m.

4S is expensive, but they're expensive for a reason. They seem to last longer and be quieter than all of the other brands I've tried. If this isn't a DD, you might not care about those things

CAinCA
CAinCA GRM+ Memberand Dork
5/1/23 1:23 p.m.

How are you planning to use it? Back roads? AutoX? Track Days? That will narrow your choices.  

thewheelman
thewheelman Reader
5/1/23 2:10 p.m.

Remember that TW ratings are used to compare tires from the same manufacturer, so comparing a Pirelli 220 to Michelin 300 isn't as simple as the numbers. Even comparing numbers within the manufacturers range isn't always as clear cut as it would seem. 

The end of the fourth paragraph sums it up:

https://www.tirerack.com/upgrade-garage/what-are-the-uniform-tire-quality-grade-utqg-standards

"As a result, it is generally only somewhat helpful to compare Treadwear grades on tires from the same manufacturer, and we don’t recommend comparing grades between different brands."

My default response is to browse Tire Rack reviews and filter by your car to see what drivers of similar vehicles are saying. 

If the cost of the 4S (or the new 5S) isn't a turnoff for you, you'll be hard pressed to find a better tire. If you don't need a summer-only tire, check out the Michelin AS-4 or the Conti DWS06+. The Michelins will feel a little sharper (in my experience), and the Contis will ride a little softer. I'm running DWS06+ on my Mustang, and they're a phenomenal tire.

In my experience, almost anything in the same performance class will be better than the Pirellis you're replacing. 

TrackNeon
TrackNeon New Reader
5/1/23 4:29 p.m.

Thanks for the information. 

I doubt this car will see a track.. well.. unless the track car dies and Ive paid for a weekend..   

I have used Continental plenty - and have always been happy with them. I've used the DWs and the DW06s.    

  Looks like imma go 4s.     This is the way.    Ha!     

Thanks! 

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand UberDork
5/1/23 4:32 p.m.

Conti ECS.  Or 4S if you want to spend a little more.

 

P.S. Treadwear is supposed to be rated against a DOT standard tire.  Sadly that tire standard is really old and was based on a rating of 100, and it might have been a bias ply tire.  The standard is that old.  

CyberEric
CyberEric Dork
5/1/23 5:30 p.m.

I'd be looking at Conti ECS or 4S. That Kumho didn't even best the old Michelin Super Sport in the tire rack reviews. 

As has been mentioned, treadwear is pretty much meaningless. 

Olemiss540
Olemiss540 HalfDork
5/1/23 5:42 p.m.
TrackNeon said:

Thanks for the information. 

I doubt this car will see a track.. well.. unless the track car dies and Ive paid for a weekend..   

I have used Continental plenty - and have always been happy with them. I've used the DWs and the DW06s.    

  Looks like imma go 4s.     This is the way.    Ha!     

Thanks! 

Never heard complaints from ANYONE street driving the MP4S. Never. 

Andy Hollis
Andy Hollis
5/1/23 7:17 p.m.

I put Conti ECS (and now ECS02) on everything that's not competing on track.

codrus (Forum Supporter)
codrus (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
5/1/23 8:23 p.m.
DocRob said:

The biggest difference between 200TW (Kumho P91s) and 300TW (Michelin PS 4S) will be wet traction. The Michelin will likely be off the pace in the dry (~2-3 seconds of lap time), but in the wet you're going to have a much surer footing. 

There are some 200 TWs with decent wet traction, but the Michelin is a much more civilized tire in terms of NVH.  It's my first choice when buying tires for a street-driven sport sedan.

 

TrackNeon
TrackNeon New Reader
5/1/23 10:19 p.m.

Thanks for the responses..  Would your opinion change if the car was 504ftlbs/480whp?   

Keeping stock sizing.  245 18   275 18 

 

Olemiss540
Olemiss540 HalfDork
5/2/23 7:57 a.m.

Opinion is the same. Dont overthink it. You will enjoy the grip and comfort of the MP4S. 

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