BoxheadTim said:
Capital Driving Club? Just curious.
Yup!
For my towing vehicle I went extreme overkill for the small enclosed for my F500 with an 07 Expedition. Other than having plugs done there isnt too much concerning on them and with a weight distribution hitch its rated for 9000lbs. That said, no truck bed.
Replacing brake lines isn't hard, it's just a totally thankless task. Right up there with repacking wheel bearings. You do a lot of work -fishing lines, in and out of clips, nothing quite 100% the same about the path so pull here, tug there, tight under the cab even with lifting - all just to get normal brakes again at the end.
Mine rusted through in the engine compartment near the grille where it crosses to the passenger side. You can't see the rears with just a casual used-car inspection, but you can see both fronts from up top pretty well.
Apexcarver said:BoxheadTim said:Capital Driving Club? Just curious.
Yup!
Small world - I had discovered the club's existence last year, but after the last Winchester and Frederick(?) events. I'm actually hoping to do some Autocross sometime later this year.
For my towing vehicle I went extreme overkill for the small enclosed for my F500 with an 07 Expedition. Other than having plugs done there isnt too much concerning on them and with a weight distribution hitch its rated for 9000lbs. That said, no truck bed.
Expeditions (like Suburbans) are somewhat on my radar, but as you said the main downside is the lack of a truck bed. And I actually do use my trucks as trucks, although arguably about 50% of the time I could just pull the seats out when I'm not dragging around oily stuff or go to the garden center.
Hey, +1 for another NoVA/DC GRMer, I'm in Arlington.
Rotting hard brake lines are a problem generally regardless of climate. I bought a one-owner 05 Yukon that spent its whole life in the DC area, purchased new and maintained at GMC of Tysons Corner. Y'all know how much snow we don't get here. My lines were rotting by the time I ditched it, and every friend I've known with a GMT800-based vehicle (10+ given we all used to tow with them) has dealt with brake lines exploding.
My Yukon was very nice and well-loved and completely fell apart from 120k to 145k. The "legendary" LSx V8 leaked enough oil that I had to re-seal the driveway because it ate the asphalt up. Trans started slipping toward the end. Gauge cluster, door lock actuators, rear air all started failing. Had to replace everything that made it steer aside from the steering wheel.
GM didn't coat the brake lines, they rot out if you look at them wrong, and they got out of a class-action lawsuit by somehow claiming that "hard brake line wear and tear is a part of any vehicle's ownership."
In totally unrelated news, I've been very happy with my Fords and Ram. The GMT800s are very handsome, they drive great and have very good interior ergonomics. I can't agree with the people who claim they hold up forever with minimal work. The later GMT900-based Avalanche/EXT are a bit better for durability (minus DoD issues) but the styling, inside and out, is incredibly plain and uninspired with worse ergonomics.
In reply to BoxheadTim :
I personally dont make it out to Winchester very much lately. I live in Waldorf and have a toddler with another kiddo on the way and its a 2 hour haul.
I am at pretty much every Waldorf event and make a hand full of Frederick events for right now (well, pandemics aside). If you make it out and see a tall skinny ginger you have a 50-50 shot its me, be sure to say hi!
I think Avalanches are fine as a vehicle, but my problem with most modern trucks is that they fail miserably as a truck vehicle. Dad's 2008 chevy dually has a beautiful 8' bed that is only useful if you're about 9' tall. Completely stock, the bed rails are chest high on me and I'm 6'1". Getting into the bed means a jump. You can't even sit on the tailgate without a significant hop. With an avalanche, you add the extra plastic "roll bar" and aero and the only access you'll ever have to your cargo will be by putting the tailgate down and crawling into the bed to get it.
Spend some time around a few and just look in the bed and imagine reaching your cargo after it has jiggled to the front on your trip.
I know a couple of the designers who worked on the Avalanche as I was with GM at the time. I still hold it over Lawrence's head and he apologizes for everything Avalanche. He had a great Raptor-like concept that got turned into nothing like he designed. He sketched the original for it to be on the H1 Hummer, then it was going to be a Caddy-only offering, then they neutered it and put it on a plain truck with plastic things.
Personal opinion: They took a normal GM truck, bolted on some plastic that makes it impossible to use the bed or see out the back, and put in a fold-down bulkhead for longer cargo that no one ever uses. They added a bunch of stuff they THOUGHT would be useful and it sold a bunch of trucks, but in reality, people bought them because they liked the look, or they only used it as a truck once in its lifetime. It was a truck for people who didn't know how to buy a truck, so they wanted the least truck-like truck they could get, but got suckered in by all the truck-ish bits that every true truck-user knew would never be a benefit.
Ever notice how many of those minivans were sold with the built-in vacuum cleaner? Millions. Ever notice how many are being sold as "never even used the vacuum cleaner?" Also millions.
They are fine vehicles. To me, they are useless as a truck.
In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
They are a major compromise between a truck and a SUV. I think another reason they are popular in the DC area is that they essentially have a stock lockable bed topper. As I said, I really liked the bedside storage.
For me, I need a pickup truck once a year or less. I can either use my enclosed trailer or rent a small open trailer for those times. I need the weatherproof and secure storage of the back of my SUV more. Heck, I really really considered a full size van instead, but my wife kinda veto'd me on that. Probably because I joked about getting a "free candy" bumpersticker.
all 2500 avalanches are 8.1Ls and they are just a suburban body with the back all changed about. 4l85 is a good trans too. dont expect great fuel economy but you can move a mountain. best way to to tell is to count the lug nuts, there should be 8.
every other avalanche is just a regular 1500 with same options
I'm still having a hard time figuring out this "can't see out the back" comments that keep being regurgitated... If it's because you're 4' in the air and can't see the shiny happy person tailgating you, I can see that. Everything else, I'm not so sure about.
irish44j (Forum Supporter) said:BoxheadTim said:In reply to irish44j (Forum Supporter) :
Yep, it's towing stuff from time to time - not that often, but fairly regularly. It'll tow more if/when I finally get back in a race car, and I occasionally do max out the trailer at 7500lbs. I really don't want to/can't get another trailer as my wife really doesn't want another trailer sitting around in the open, which it would have to.
The reason the Avalanche appeals is because it's another four seater that would convert to an 8' bed, although I don't need four seats that often. Yes, I could probably get away with another regular cab truck, I'd just have to spring for another camper shell. Extended cab is probably doable, too, but would be tight in the only spot I can park the truck in.
I really don't want a minivan, and I don't think there are any that can tow 7500lbs.
rgr....that high of towing certainly limits your choices. That's right at the top of what my Sequoia can safely pull, frankly.
Not anymore. You can tow that with a Colorado, Tacoma or Gladiator these days.
In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :
Which is true, if I wanted to spend new truck money. But my trucks tend to be a fifth or sixth vehicle to I'm trying to strike a reasonable balance, and I don't think there are any non-full size mid 2000s trucks that can tow 7500lbs or more.
Just keep in mind that comparing factory tow ratings to what they can actually tow is like speed limits are to what a safe speed is to drive on a certain road. Big difference between a 95 year old on heart medication with a record of hitting every fireplug in a 56 chevy pickup vs a middle aged person with a flawless record in a brand new Suby with braking assist, AWD, ABS, lane departure warning, and a modern suspension design... but the law says that 65 mph is equally moral for both of them.
There is the legal side where you could technically be cited for towing too much if you get discovered in an accident, but who would actually enforce it? Police are given the power to question it, or use their discernment to investigate, but they don't have scales, nor do they have a chart that matches your VIN to a tow rating.
Factory tow ratings are 1 part ASTM engineering and 6 parts marketing. There is a reason why the same generation of F150 might be rated for anywhere from 4000-13,5000 lbs depending on the combination of parts.
Classic examples: my 94 Mazda B4000 is rated to tow 3500. A 2000 Ranger 4.0L (which is the same truck with the same springs, engine, brakes, and radiator as my 94) could be rated for up to 6100. That's almost double. The reason is not what the truck can safely handle, it's because the 94 has a weaksauce A4LD transmission and the 2000 has a 4R44E... which is a vast upgrade despite it's similarity. That doesn't mean it's legal to tow 6000 with my 94, but it handles it beautifully.
My 96 Impala SS is rated for pathetically low numbers despite being better equipped than a comparable Caprice because the marketing gurus knew that SS buyers weren't getting them as tow pigs. Lower tow rating, lower liability on warranty repair, win/win.
Contrast that with a newer F150 rated to tow 13,500. I have towed 8000 lbs with one. It didn't impress me with how it handled the load, and from that experience I certainly wouldn't feel safe towing 13,500 with it... but Chevy advertises 13,000, so Ford scrambles to make sure their cooling system, transmission, and suspension is capable of it so they can advertise big numbers.
Newer trucks are getting out of hand with their tow ratings. Who buys an F350 with the intention of towing more than half as much cargo as an 18 wheeler? Who buys a Colorado to tow 7500 lbs?
You're towing light stuff. Just be reasonable and there are tons of vehicles out there that would do it.
Factory tow ratings also don't take into consideration WHAT you are towing. I would much rather tow a 10,000 lb flatbed with a tractor on it than a 7500 lb travel trailer. One is an anchor. The other is a billboard.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:Factory tow ratings also don't take into consideration WHAT you are towing. I would much rather tow a 10,000 lb flatbed with a tractor on it than a 7500 lb travel trailer. One is an anchor. The other is a billboard.
Most people also don't understand how tongue weight makes things handle. If you are towing regularly, I highly recommend air bags to get things more level and if you are loading a travel trailer or flat bed with something, you better understand how to load the trailer properly. I once towed over 40,000 lbs with an old 1970s Ford dually wrecker with a 460..... that's a crazy story and true. It cost the wrecker a clutch too, but it got where it needed to be in order to be safe. That insane load is also why the original truck broke down. You can easily overload a 5th wheel flatbed trailer it turns out.
@The OP. You may want to look at a GMC Sierra Denali. A standard 1500 with the crew cab and a 6.0l motor. Mine is an 03 and has been very reliable. It has had normal ware items replaced over the years. I replaced all the brake lines three years ago with the nicad lines in a afternoon. Fuel pumps seem to be a 100k service item. Water pumps every 100k but this I do with belts hoses thermostat and the rad as preventive Maintence. I had to replace the power steering cooler last year as it started leaking. The evap systems are known to need service as the plastic box's crack I replaced that at about 300k miles. Mine is a Quadra stear and that finally started to flake out last year. Speaking of the quadrastear it is great when it worked but if I had a choice I would get one with out it so I could lower the truck. The quadrasteer rear axle set up makes lowering not really possible. I did the rear dif seals at 320k. Front and rear dif oil changes every 50-100k. Tires every 40-60k depending on the brand. Brake pads and rotors every 40-60k again it depends on the brand and if I am towing and if the trailer had brakes. That is about it. The truck now has 348k. Non of the stuff I have listed to me seems out of the ordinary. The trans and the motor have never been open. I attribute that to regular oil changes with cheep oil every 3k miles and trans services every 40-60 k. It has been a great work truck. I would get another with out question. I would probably look a couple years newer with the full crew cab. I have the split doors where you have to open the front to open the rear and that completely sucks.
My kids have named it Old T-Rex.
We've owned an Avalanche Z71 since new in 2002. It has been used as a "truck" since day one, hauling engines and axles, enough lumber and sheet goods to literally build a house. I've towed cars and horses and boats. It has been fabulous at that. The rubber cargo mat holds things in place like glue, and the cargo boxes are awesome, many years before Dodge stole the idea for "Ram boxes". I've got towing/recovery eqpmnt in one, jumper cables etc in the other.
As far as towing, about 6k is the most I'm really comfortable with, even though it's rated for 7200. It will do more, but it works really hard at it. I did a short haul with over 10k when it was fairly new, with no ill effects. I even pulled a semi-trailer once.
It drives and handles really well for everyday use since it's Suburban-based (not a pickup), with good balance and smooth ride. Turning radius is surprisingly small. It does really well in bad weather and snow.
I know this sounds like a commercial, but I'm just telling our experience over the last 18 years. It hasn't been perfect or cheap by any means. Transmission lasted 210k before being replaced (still driving, btw), the brake line exploded like all of them do, and it's getting rusty now.
We should trade it off, but it just keeps working for us.
I think the payload is underrated. It takes 2500# back there easy. Barely even notice.
Can some one tell me the difference between a suburban and a pickup. (I know the difference with respect to teh bodys) They are both full frame trucks. Why do people keep referring to the suburban as being different?
dean1484 said:Can some one tell me the difference between a suburban and a pickup. (I know the difference with respect to teh bodys) They are both full frame trucks. Why do people keep referring to the suburban as being different?
The unibody of the suburban significantly stiffens up a very "flimsy" parallel ladder frame. Plus the Suburban doesn't ride around on "buggy springs". It's a complete coil spring and parallel 4 link with a panhard bar.
I've never thought of Suburbans as trucks. In this case, I was meaning it has a completely different frame and suspension design than the same year Silverado. I don't think anything is the same. My guess is since the Sub is one body structure vs two for a pickup they would be designed differently, for different purposes. To me, the driving dynamics are very different.
Edit: not sure I said "different" enough. 
Picked this rig up last week.
Ayy, that looks fully loaded too! Nice!
Nice.
I just replaced ALL the brake lines on our AV. Not fun at all. Still truckin' at 268,000 miles.
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