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jr10cross
jr10cross Reader
9/8/17 6:11 a.m.

I recently reviewed a 06 BMW 330xi for my Flashback Autos series, but I received a shock looking at the performance figures. A 06 and 17 have basic identical 0-60 and quarter mile times 11 years later. I'll bet the 06 has better handling too because of weight. Who in their right mind would spend the extra $30k on a 17?surprise

https://www.youtube.com/embed/HeRlJVdpkjs

dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/8/17 6:41 a.m.

Because new car. 

nutherjrfan
nutherjrfan Dork
9/8/17 7:08 a.m.

Because social class/status demands it.  No riff raff.  wink Is that a GSR in the background - always appealed to my inner child those. smiley

pinchvalve
pinchvalve GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/8/17 7:11 a.m.

Test drove an older 330 with the paddle-shifters and was very impressed with the power.  It had a car-seat impression in the back seat that indicated years of mom-commuting duty and looked new.  I had the same thought, why buy new? 

02Pilot
02Pilot Dork
9/8/17 7:16 a.m.

I suspect those figures haven't changed a whole lot since the E36 (assuming we're talking about the same model across chassis revisions). Curb weights, however, have risen steadily.

pushrod36
pushrod36 Reader
9/8/17 7:27 a.m.

I recently did this (bought an E46 chassis instead of a new one), and it left me with this question:  What new piece of vehicle technology has come along since 2005 that makes road cars better today without a huge penalty to the user?  Yes, cars have more power, but they had plenty in 2005.  Yes the brakes/tires/suspension is all better objectively, but also more expensive components.  Finally, advances in crash safety have come at the cost of visibility and styling.

mad_machine
mad_machine GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/8/17 8:00 a.m.
02Pilot said:

I suspect those figures haven't changed a whole lot since the E36 (assuming we're talking about the same model across chassis revisions). Curb weights, however, have risen steadily.

except there was no 330i in the E36 lineup. You either had M3 or 328

thestig99
thestig99 HalfDork
9/8/17 8:01 a.m.

Because warranty

ManhattanM (fka NY535iManual)
ManhattanM (fka NY535iManual) Reader
9/8/17 8:02 a.m.

Set aside sports/performance cars, where the performance jumps are pretty astonishing. Theoretically, safety and fuel economy have improved steadily. On BMWs anyway, MPGs haven't gone up near enough to justify the cost bump, and I don't think the newer cars are DIY friendly. I tend to like older cars, like wrenching, and would rather spend on racing and travel than gas, so it all lines up for me. The newest car anyone in my immediate family owns is a 2005.

BUT: I drive newer high end cars once in a while, and to me the immediately noticeable, amazing difference is how QUIET they are, and how comfy they ride. For folks who view driving as an unpleasant reality of life, that's a great thing. Plus, warranty.

I'll tell you, 500-600 mile trips in a current 5 series or E Class are so easy you barely notice. TMI: Especially if the Benz has the air conditioned seats. Avoiding swamp butt has me thinking hard about stepping up to one of these in the next years. 

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
9/8/17 8:13 a.m.
thestig99 said:

Because warranty

Came here to post this.

When will a big chunk of the GRM members get over the constant bashing of new cars?

If it weren't for those of us that buy new cars, you cheapskates wouldn't have anything on the used market. wink

jr10cross
jr10cross Reader
9/8/17 8:50 a.m.

In reply to ManhattanM (fka NY535iManual) :

Step up to the 08 CLS550. Mine has the cooled seats but us still pretty easy to work on. I have a video of a 700 mile trip where i averaged 27.4 mpg in a 5.5 liter V8. Lol I can't bring myself to upgrading to the 3rd Gen.

jr10cross
jr10cross Reader
9/8/17 9:01 a.m.

In reply to z31maniac :

Yeah but I have experience working on the newer 3-series and it isn't fun. Tolerances are extremely tight and there's just no room because of package. I was down right in the middle of the car trying to remove something by the header. Also, some of the metals felt pretty flimsy. I know it's in an effort to save weight, but the 06 only weighed 3200lb. It seems like all this extra safety stuff is pushing us further away from the dream and turning people in un-inspired drivers. We should do a test, give everyone driving a boat these days and opportunity to drive a light nimble sedan and see how they feel afterward. I think big government is affecting our right to choice. I don't need 30 airbags, lane safety, pedestrian stopping, and all that other crude. We just need to train people to be better drivers, but you have to also produce an engaging car to drive.

Ian F
Ian F MegaDork
9/8/17 9:23 a.m.

In reply to z31maniac :

I suppose I've become jaded and don't really have a lot of faith in warranties.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
9/8/17 10:45 a.m.
jr10cross said:

In reply to z31maniac :

Yeah but I have experience working on the newer 3-series and it isn't fun. Tolerances are extremely tight and there's just no room because of package. I was down right in the middle of the car trying to remove something by the header. Also, some of the metals felt pretty flimsy. I know it's in an effort to save weight, but the 06 only weighed 3200lb. It seems like all this extra safety stuff is pushing us further away from the dream and turning people in un-inspired drivers. We should do a test, give everyone driving a boat these days and opportunity to drive a light nimble sedan and see how they feel afterward. I think big government is affecting our right to choice. I don't need 30 airbags, lane safety, pedestrian stopping, and all that other crude. We just need to train people to be better drivers, but you have to also produce an engaging car to drive.

Yet another problem with the GRM mindset. 

MOST PEOPLE DON'T CARE!!!! They just want a comfy appliance with lots of tech, gizmos, and features.......they wan't to have to do nothing more than get the oil changed and occasionally pay someone to do the brakes and put on fresh tires.

Sorry you don't agree, the market shows that is the case.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
9/8/17 10:46 a.m.
Ian F said:

In reply to z31maniac :

I suppose I've become jaded and don't really have a lot of faith in warranties.

Stop buying VWs? devil

Pete Gossett
Pete Gossett GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/8/17 10:48 a.m.

I really liked the '02 330i had last year. It was a total pos, and didn't seem cost-effective to tow it down to MS from IL so I sold it. In hindsight after spending 9-months(and counting) plus $$ on the Vette, I'd definitely would have been better off keeping the BMW. 

ProDarwin
ProDarwin PowerDork
9/8/17 10:58 a.m.
z31maniac said:

MOST PEOPLE DON'T CARE!!!! They just want a comfy appliance with lots of tech, gizmos, and features and a warranty.......they wan't to have to do nothing more than get the oil changed and occasionally pay someone to do the brakes and put on fresh tires.

Sorry you don't agree, the market shows that is the case.

This (Updated to reflect other posts).  

Give most people a boat and a responsive sporty car and they will either A) not notice the difference or B) say "why is this bouncy", "its not as smooth", etc.

Many manufacturers have engaging cars to drive, but the appliances outsell them 10 or 100 to 1.

jr10cross
jr10cross Reader
9/8/17 11:02 a.m.

In reply to z31maniac :

True...

I wish though they wouldn't label them sports cars or put M, R, AMG,S,F behind the badge, implying that they offer the same feeling as their predecessor. I agree though most people unfortunately dont care. But the German society does seem to a little more. How can we clone? Lol

Ian F
Ian F MegaDork
9/8/17 11:04 a.m.

Stop buying VWs? 

Ha! I've only bought one. And it never needed warranty work. cheeky

Trackmouse
Trackmouse SuperDork
9/8/17 11:07 a.m.

But then You talk to those same people about the good old days when cars were fun to drive and it was an American past time and everyone driving knew how to change a tire, and they'll agree. The old cars were better because they made people better drivers. 

yupididit
yupididit GRM+ Memberand Dork
9/8/17 11:36 a.m.

 Yall may not like modern (new) cars. But, as z31 said they're effecient, safe, comfortable, easy to drive, and fast. The top tier accord has more horsepower than most people need. GRM folks fall into the pitfall that every car needs to be fun, engaging, light but nah breh they need to be safe, efficient, and SAFE first. 

To the guy who said we need to make people better drivers, that's a dumb reason to skimp on having as much safety as possible. We need more safety and better drivers but we can't control others, so....pre-emptive safety! As long as humans are driving we need more safety. You might as well said, "we need to train deers to be better street crossers".

If I could, I'd keep the wife in something new with a warrenty and mucho anti-GRM safety gizmos. I'd feel a lot better knowing she's safe vs knowing she's driving something "engaging". 

 

wlkelley3
wlkelley3 UltraDork
9/8/17 11:42 a.m.

As stated by several. The majority want a warranty, most can't even tell you how the car works. Other than gas goes here, turn the key or push the button and it starts and drives. If a light comes on, take it to the dealer. When the tires wear out, trade it in.

I buy a vehicle, whether new or used I tend to keep them till they aren't worth anything. Not a lot of turn-over, unlike some here. So I don't feed much used cars back to the likes of youse guys. wink Daughter's fiancé is a gearhead, he buys used cars and keeps them a while and sells them while they still have value.

People I work with can't understand my sports cars, both classic and newer. Too hard to get in and out of, too small, etc.... While they crawl into their SUV's and full-size trucks. Driving is just a means to get from one place to another. SWMBO is like that too. But she tolerates my "toys" as long as I don't go overboard.

dannyzabolotny
dannyzabolotny Reader
9/8/17 12:06 p.m.

I completely agree with you on older BMW's being great. My 2000 540it has around 300hp and does 0-60 in 5.8s, which is still pretty zippy by today's standards. It has great visibility all around, is easy to work on, and isn't particularly troublesome, even as a daily driver. Newer BMW's are a mess, even with the warranties.

Trackmouse
Trackmouse SuperDork
9/8/17 12:33 p.m.

I think the best of both POV's here is we should definitely have all the new safety and tech, but have the option of choosing to not use it. I'm looking at you Subaru... 

jr10cross
jr10cross Reader
9/8/17 12:40 p.m.

In reply to yupididit :

What has happened here? Has everyone just decided accept what tilted analytics has shoved in front of their faces? The majority choose boring/un-inspired transportation because they haven't been educated properly. They don't know any better. That doesn't mean that we are all doomed to drive vehicles based on their uneducated choice. Vehicle safety is extremely important but it was executed differently in the past. Nothing is more safe than teaching people to respect the power they have been given. I don't care how safe you make the car, an idiot can still crash it. The more safety technology evolves the more it becomes unnecessary for you to drive the car at all. Soon your insurance will charge you a premium because driving the car yourself will be considered a high risk.

My YouTube channel was created to educate people on how easy it is to own and maintain vehicles that are considered high maintenance and costly. People have commented that they've purchased 944s or renew the project of their deceased fathers because of the information shared. The 944 community is turning around for the best because of education. That's happening to all our vehicles, because we have resources like YouTube, forums, and blogs that allows us to freely disseminate information to large audiences. 

People aren't doomed to ignorance, but we will be doomed if we fail to take responsibility. Someone took a stand before and killed the K cars. I just find it so weird to hear such jaded talk from this awesome community.   

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