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Argo1
Argo1 UltraDork
5/21/22 7:49 p.m.

The performance of a performance car doesn’t matter anymore.

How fast is your car? Wrong question. How much fun is your car? Good question.

We are in an era where performance can exceed any rational need or use. Faster isn’t necessarily more fun and, in many cases, is way too much to use at an enjoyable level on public roads. If blistering acceleration was all that mattered, we would all drive electric cars. Does that make them fun? After a couple of standing starts, then what? So far, most of them are good transportation appliances where big brother controls everything. Fast golf carts.

Who cares if a car runs to 60 in 3.6 seconds or 4.6 seconds? When will it matter? Unless you are doing full track competition, it doesn’t. Does it sound good? Does it engage you in the performance? Does it make you feel good? Those are better questions.

I have both fast and slow cars and I recently had the chance to drive a really slow car that I used to own in the past: a ’71 MG Midget. That car put a grin on my face. I had a blast. It absolutely didn’t matter that the Kia Rio in the next lane could leave me in the dust.  They didn’t have a big grin on their face.

I also have a 991 Carrera S. It's pretty fast. There are faster Carreras. I don’t care. It is plenty fast enough to send me directly to jail if I use too many gears. The 991.1 is the last of the normally aspirated flat six engines. (GT3’s are way out of my orbit) The newer series turbos are faster. Don’t care. I love the linear response and sounds of the free breathing engine. Handling is amazing. Ergonomics are spot on. It's a joy to drive at any speed.  Why would I ever need more?

As cars get newer, it is getting harder to legally modify and personalize your car. Let’s hope we don’t lose this right. Chances are, that if you added that air filter or exhaust, you probably made your car slower - or no change.  Again, doesn’t matter if it sounds better and makes you feel better about your car.  Go for it.

I have a 1964 Corvair. It is certainly not fast by modern standards. The 60-year-old driving experience is a lot of fun. Very different.  Amazing what cars didn’t have back then. I saw an old newspaper ad advertising new Corvairs. Listed as features were oil filter and turn signals. Wow! Oil filter AND turn signals! Loaded!

A dual clutch paddle shift transmission can be fun.  Clutch and stick can be fun.  Which is faster?  Who cares?  Which puts a smile on your face?  Teach your kids to shift and have fun in cars.  That doesn’t mean driving stupid fast on streets. Car events. Track days. Autocross. Etc. Enjoyment of any of it doesn’t depend on ultimate performance. I appreciate the art and engineering of the latest supercars.  I don’t need to own one.  Most of them are locked away and rarely driven. I would be afraid to drive and use one.  That’s not fun.

Enjoyment of the automotive hobby doesn’t depend on speed.

volvoclearinghouse
volvoclearinghouse PowerDork
5/21/22 8:09 p.m.

It's funny, I started reading this and was thinking about my 64 Corvair that we just took for a drive to go get dinner with the kids. Top down. As I was driving home, with the accelerator matted in 3rd gear trying to accelerate up a hill, I was thinking, I could use more power...but I don't need more power. 110 horses when all tuned up and running perfect, and it's a blast. A 4 speed shifter that requires real finesse to grab the gear you want. Finicky twin carbs. And the weight balance of a pickup truck driving in reverse. 

And then you mentioned you also had a 64 Corvair. Lol. 

 

racerfink
racerfink UltraDork
5/21/22 8:14 p.m.

Big thumbs up from me.  I just hope we will still be allowed to drive 10 to 15 years from now.

buzzboy
buzzboy SuperDork
5/21/22 9:44 p.m.

My favorite car is the slowest. But it's more fun. It puts a smile on my face and on those whom I pass and pass me. It's just cool. Performance be damned, it's fun. I'm in this hobby for the fun of it.

Shadeux
Shadeux GRM+ Memberand Dork
5/21/22 10:08 p.m.

Yeah, I agree. In 20 years kids will all have 2.5 sec. 0 to 60 cars and the scene will be about 80 compound tires and someone has figured how to get another 2 Gigajoules out of a crappy Tesla battery.

And I will be loving it. 

racerfink
racerfink UltraDork
5/21/22 10:16 p.m.

They'll be using that extra power for the six row light bar across the front bumper, and the glow lights in the wheel wells though.

ShawnG
ShawnG MegaDork
5/21/22 10:36 p.m.

One of my favourite cars to drive is an Austin Healey Sprite.

More fun to drive than a lot of stupid-fast cars.

Run_Away
Run_Away Dork
5/21/22 11:31 p.m.

Hit the nail on the head. I've been browsing C3 Corvettes lately, and it's all about the look and experience.

frenchyd
frenchyd MegaDork
5/21/22 11:37 p.m.

In reply to Argo1 :

Thank you for joining us. Spend a tiny budget. Wind up with a lifetime of smiles and pleasure. 
     MGT series will give you a lifetime of smiles and joy at a tiny cost.  Starting at $5000  with a little of luck you can buy a driver quality MG T series or Sprite/Midget.  If you rebuild it you'll spend at least three times your original cost but wind up with a complete knowledge of your car.  
 That knowledge is worth a lot more than a 500 horsepower engine. Knowledge is power! 
  
   The knowledge you gain by rebuilding everything yourself will make you more powerful than 500 horsepower will. Because you'll know how easy it is to trouble shoot and fix.  Open the Hood ( Bonnet in England ) make a minor adjustment, close the hood and you're quickly on your way.  Test equipment?  Nah!   Eyes, ears, smell, touch.  ( leave the taste buds for the glass of wine you treat yourself to at home) 

   You show up with that big high horsepower expensive sports car.  People won't admire you or come over to talk.  Most will either be jealous or resentful. While if you show up in a MGTC people will befriend you and enjoy their past experience  with cars like that.  You now are accessible. Heck you don't have to open some weird door just to hear and be visible.  You're right there.   No one is intimidated by you or your car. 
     
      

Captdownshift (Forum Supporter)
Captdownshift (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
5/22/22 1:41 p.m.

In reply to buzzboy :

Was that photo taken in Frisco by chance? 

frenchyd
frenchyd MegaDork
5/22/22 3:04 p.m.
racerfink said:

Big thumbs up from me.  I just hope we will still be allowed to drive 10 to 15 years from now.

Heck the horse was beat over 125 years ago and horse is  still around.  Just insanely expensive to own.    
 If we don't have gasoline any corn field or sugar beet field will supply the materials to drive em. 

frenchyd
frenchyd MegaDork
5/22/22 3:09 p.m.
Argo1 said:

The performance of a performance car doesn’t matter anymore.

How fast is your car? Wrong question. How much fun is your car? Good question.

We are in an era where performance can exceed any rational need or use. Faster isn’t necessarily more fun and, in many cases, is way too much to use at an enjoyable level on public roads. If blistering acceleration was all that mattered, we would all drive electric cars. Does that make them fun? After a couple of standing starts, then what? So far, most of them are good transportation appliances where big brother controls everything. Fast golf carts.

Who cares if a car runs to 60 in 3.6 seconds or 4.6 seconds? When will it matter? Unless you are doing full track competition, it doesn’t. Does it sound good? Does it engage you in the performance? Does it make you feel good? Those are better questions.

I have both fast and slow cars and I recently had the chance to drive a really slow car that I used to own in the past: a ’71 MG Midget. That car put a grin on my face. I had a blast. It absolutely didn’t matter that the Kia Rio in the next lane could leave me in the dust.  They didn’t have a big grin on their face.

I also have a 991 Carrera S. It's pretty fast. There are faster Carreras. I don’t care. It is plenty fast enough to send me directly to jail if I use too many gears. The 991.1 is the last of the normally aspirated flat six engines. (GT3’s are way out of my orbit) The newer series turbos are faster. Don’t care. I love the linear response and sounds of the free breathing engine. Handling is amazing. Ergonomics are spot on. It's a joy to drive at any speed.  Why would I ever need more?

As cars get newer, it is getting harder to legally modify and personalize your car. Let’s hope we don’t lose this right. Chances are, that if you added that air filter or exhaust, you probably made your car slower - or no change.  Again, doesn’t matter if it sounds better and makes you feel better about your car.  Go for it.

I have a 1964 Corvair. It is certainly not fast by modern standards. The 60-year-old driving experience is a lot of fun. Very different.  Amazing what cars didn’t have back then. I saw an old newspaper ad advertising new Corvairs. Listed as features were oil filter and turn signals. Wow! Oil filter AND turn signals! Loaded!

A dual clutch paddle shift transmission can be fun.  Clutch and stick can be fun.  Which is faster?  Who cares?  Which puts a smile on your face?  Teach your kids to shift and have fun in cars.  That doesn’t mean driving stupid fast on streets. Car events. Track days. Autocross. Etc. Enjoyment of any of it doesn’t depend on ultimate performance. I appreciate the art and engineering of the latest supercars.  I don’t need to own one.  Most of them are locked away and rarely driven. I would be afraid to drive and use one.  That’s not fun.

Enjoyment of the automotive hobby doesn’t depend on speed.

I sure agree with the sentiment your are saying.  
 One minor correction if I may.  On the street you aren't controlled by big government.   Those are all local rules put up by your neighbors and friends. 
  Want a 100 mph speed limit?  Run for local office, get enough support and there is your 100 mph limit. 
   Heck we even voted into the governors office a guy who didn't like expensive license plates and registration. 

Argo1
Argo1 UltraDork
5/22/22 3:39 p.m.

In reply to frenchyd :

My big brother comment was really directed at the trend for car companies to control your car via downloads and subscription option BS.  Years of competition has taught me that speed belongs on the track and that there are many great qualities of great cars that can be enjoyed on the street.

frenchyd
frenchyd MegaDork
5/22/22 4:43 p.m.

Fair enough.   One of the weaknesses of the internet is we don't get enough time with each other to understand each other so assumption rule.   I apologize for my mistake. 

buzzboy
buzzboy SuperDork
5/22/22 5:19 p.m.
Captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to buzzboy :

Was that photo taken in Frisco by chance? 

Sure was. One of the only Futuras left that I know of. I live in buxton.

759NRNG
759NRNG UberDork
5/22/22 6:00 p.m.
frenchyd said:
racerfink said:

Big thumbs up from me.  I just hope we will still be allowed to drive 10 to 15 years from now.

Heck the horse was beat over 125 years ago and horse is  still around.  Just insanely expensive to own.    
 If we don't have gasoline any corn field or sugar beet field will supply the materials to drive em. 

Psssssst ....rumor has it that there's still plenty of that nasty evil Dinosaur bloodwink to be refined. 

akylekoz
akylekoz UltraDork
5/22/22 6:45 p.m.

So true.

I had soooo much fun in my little 4.6 powered Mustang at the track last week.  I don't even want that much stickier tires because it might upset the fun.

Would I like to try my buddies 900hp SVT Track Pack GR500 on the track?  Hell yeah.  Would it be more fun, I seriously doubt it.

A 401 CJ
A 401 CJ SuperDork
5/22/22 8:17 p.m.
frenchyd said:
racerfink said:

Big thumbs up from me.  I just hope we will still be allowed to drive 10 to 15 years from now.

Heck the horse was beat over 125 years ago and horse is  still around.  Just insanely expensive to own.    
 If we don't have gasoline any corn field or sugar beet field will supply the materials to drive em. 

And you think girls notice your classic old car?  Try riding a horse.  Trust me on this.  Chicks just dig em.

Kreb (Forum Supporter)
Kreb (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
5/22/22 9:13 p.m.

Very well said. I had the pleasure of doing a serious backroad blat last year taking turns between a well-modified 1970s 911 and a late-model GT3. The GT3 was nowhere near as entertaining. Would I feel differently if we were at Laguna Seca? Almost definitely, but how often do I get to drive there versus how often do I end up on narrow backroads? I even appreciated the fact that earlier 911s were known to want to spin and had to be driven with care. All the better.

A MG TD is a prime example. Owners of Diesel rabbits sneer at the MGs acceleration, and  if your G meter only goes up to .5 you're probably covered, but the feel of those skinny tires drifting at 30 MPH is more fun than most cars at twice the speed.

Kreb (Forum Supporter)
Kreb (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
5/22/22 9:16 p.m.
A 401 CJ said:
 

And you think girls notice your classic old car?  Try riding a horse.  Trust me on this.  Chicks just dig em.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJEadH4RIno

P3PPY
P3PPY GRM+ Memberand Dork
5/22/22 9:28 p.m.

Well said!

 The other day someone asked me about how fast the Z4 was. I didn't really have a good answer, since it's simply not in *that* running -- a 4 door Ram knocked down that pedestal for me many many moons ago. I'll keep your post in my back pocket though. 

GCrites80s
GCrites80s Dork
5/22/22 9:37 p.m.
A 401 CJ said:
frenchyd said:
racerfink said:

Big thumbs up from me.  I just hope we will still be allowed to drive 10 to 15 years from now.

Heck the horse was beat over 125 years ago and horse is  still around.  Just insanely expensive to own.    
 If we don't have gasoline any corn field or sugar beet field will supply the materials to drive em. 

And you think girls notice your classic old car?  Try riding a horse.  Trust me on this.  Chicks just dig em.

They like the horse itself, it means you probably make decent money and that you're not on a ridiculous work schedule if you have a horse.

irish44j (Forum Supporter)
irish44j (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
5/22/22 9:44 p.m.

My favorite car is still my 1988 Porsche 924S. All 160hp of it - it's arguably the slowest car I own (well, except my 160hp Raider that weighs twice as much), and it's substantially slower than my commuter car (GTI and before that 300whp WRX). By far the best driver's car I've ever owned, even if soccer moms in Honda Odysseys can smoke me from a stoplight. 

That said, the 924S would be even more amazing if I could drop an engine in it that weighed the same and put out 300hp or so :) Because while I love driver's cars for being driver's cars, I also like some breakneck acceleration every so often (though I don't care much about top speed). 

johndej
johndej Dork
5/22/22 10:08 p.m.

In reply to Argo1 :

Smiles per miles

Argo1
Argo1 UltraDork
5/22/22 11:47 p.m.
irish44j (Forum Supporter) said:

My favorite car is still my 1988 Porsche 924S. All 160hp of it - it's arguably the slowest car I own (well, except my 160hp Raider that weighs twice as much), and it's substantially slower than my commuter car (GTI and before that 300whp WRX). By far the best driver's car I've ever owned, even if soccer moms in Honda Odysseys can smoke me from a stoplight. 

That said, the 924S would be even more amazing if I could drop an engine in it that weighed the same and put out 300hp or so :) Because while I love driver's cars for being driver's cars, I also like some breakneck acceleration every so often (though I don't care much about top speed). 

I've owned 13 Porsches over the years, starting with a '67 911S.  And ones of every kind since.  Other than my current 991, my favorite of all was my 1988 924S.  What a fantastically balanced drivers car. No extremes in any way but all in balance.  Drove it for years.  Sold it with over 200k on the clock.

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